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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Incorrect mathematical integration Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 23:29:36 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 85 Message-ID: <v7p7bu$1cd5m$1@dont-email.me> References: <EKV4LWfwyF4mvRIpW8X1iiirzQk@jntp> <v7h59v$3mabh$1@dont-email.me> <UqTpLIJxvD4VcXT01kWm7g9OGtU@jntp> <v7jnc7$7jpq$1@dont-email.me> <KRDL-sfeKg0KUbMuUiMzTEhYDwk@jntp> <v7mc8d$pmhs$1@dont-email.me> <9w4qQAYIGHNeJtHg4ZR1m_Ooxo4@jntp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 23:29:34 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c3d186222b3933076195fdf241c177cf"; logging-data="1455286"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19fWhEwW3XE3maZXWBAw779" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:yhxZV/wHIu9ahfZyI4YfOGn8VM0= Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <9w4qQAYIGHNeJtHg4ZR1m_Ooxo4@jntp> Bytes: 3772 Den 22.07.2024 23:37, skrev Richard Hachel: > Le 22/07/2024 à 21:34, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >> Den 21.07.2024 23:06, skrev Richard Hachel: >> >> Let's look at the LHC again. >> >> The length of the circuit is L = 27 k, γ = 7460 >> The real speed of the proton in the lab frame is >> v = 0.999999991·c >> >> The real time measured in the lab frame for the proton to go >> around the circuit is >> T = L/v ≈ 90 μs >> The proper time of a proton to go around the circuit is >> τ = T/γ ≈ 12 ns >> "proper speed" = L/τ = 6947c > > Yes. But "proper speed" is never used in SR because: >> This "speed" is not the speed of a proton or anything else. > > It is. When calculating velocities the distance and time must be measured in the same frame of reference. The distance in one frame and the time in another frame is not a speed of anything if the frames are moving relative to each other. L/τ is not the speed of anything because it is the distance in the lab frame divided by the time in the rest frame of the proton. > Calculate p=mVr and E=mc².sqrt(1+Vr²/c²) In the real word we have p = mvγ E = γmc² these are extremely well confirmed. > >> The proton is moving at the speed 0.999999991·c relative to the lab, >> and the lab is moving at the speed 0.999999991·c relative to the proton. > > That what I say. No, that is not what you say. You say the proton is moving at the speed 6947c relative to the lab. > There is nothing illogical or abnormal there. Here is how you calculate the speed of the lab relative to the proton: u = L'/τ where L' = L/γ and τ = T/γ u = L/T = 0.999999991·c Distance and time in same frame of reference! > >> And you thought that the real speed speed of the proton in the lab frame >> was 6947c and therefore you "tell them [the physicists at CERN] that >> the proton rotates 78 million times per second". >> >> Which is 6933 times the real number, ≈ 11.25 thousand times per second. > > But no! > > We can't say that if a proton spins once, it spins thousands of times, > that's stupid. > No one will ever tell you that. No one but you. Give it up, Richard. The physicists at CERN measures that the proton 'rotates' 11.25 thousand times per second, you "tell them that the proton rotates 78 million times per second." Is the calculation (78 million)/(11.25 thousand) = 6933/1 too hard for you? -- Paul https://paulba.no/