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From: Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1
Subject: Re: Hungary 2024 - Piastri/Norris
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 16:57:46 -0700
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On 2024-07-23 14:50, Geoff wrote:
> On 23/07/2024 6:15 pm, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-22 19:50, Geoff wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2024 7:23 am, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-22 00:14, Sir Tim wrote:
>>>>> Geoff <geoff@geoffwood.org> wrote:
>>>>>> The call to swap places was fair enough, given that calling PIA in 
>>>>>> was a
>>>>>> team tactic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I reckon NOR shot himself in the foot by not letting PIA past 
>>>>>> at the
>>>>>> earliest opportunity. If he had, he would have had more laps in 
>>>>>> which to
>>>>>>   potentially overtake him and win the race.
>>>>>
>>>>> Difficult to imagine this sort of situation arising when Ron Dennis 
>>>>> was in
>>>>> charge (also difficult to imagine Schumacher/Senna/Vettel complying).
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that Norris is well ahead of Piastri in the WDC, McLaren 
>>>>> should have
>>>>> let Lando win. Tough on Oscar, but F1 is a tough sport and his day 
>>>>> will
>>>>> come.
>>>>>
>>>>> With McLaren apparently dominant it is not beyond the bounds of 
>>>>> possibility
>>>>> that Norris could win the WDC - I just hope he doesn’t miss out by 
>>>>> less
>>>>> than 7 points
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Based on what I read of Norris's remarks after the race, I think 
>>>> there was pretty clearly an agreement between the two drivers that 
>>>> if one of them was ahead at some still-unknown earlier point in the 
>>>> race, then that driver would get the win.
>>>
>>> Yeah but from lap 44 (was it) of 70 ?!!! Plenty of opportunity for 
>>> real racing between them both after that and for NOR to potentially 
>>> regain his place, if the could ...
>>>
>>> geoff
>>>
>>
>> Team orders have been a part of F1 since forever.
>>
>> Teams make these agreements to make sure their drivers don't take each 
>> other out.
>>
>> I don't know for certain if there was an agreement or what it was, but 
>> if there WAS an agreement, then Norris should be applauded for living 
>> up to his agreements.
> 
> Yes, eventually. But my reasoning still stands that if he has given the 
> place back sooner, it would have been a simple case of 'may the best man 
> win'.
> 
> Unless the team agreement was that 'if somebody was ahead at 'x' point 
> in the race (and certainly just over half-distance) that they they must 
> be allowed to finish ahead of the other'. And I simply cannot believe 
> that would be the case.

Then posit another meaning for the radio transmission,  “Just remember 
every single Sunday morning meeting we’ve had.” as a way to get Norris 
to give back the place.

It can't be about simply not taking each other out, particularly in 
light of Norris's reply: “Yep, tell him to catch up then please.”

There can't be a danger of taking each other out if they're separated by 
5 seconds, so I interpret that as an agreement to keep the order at some 
point.

What I've read online and what makes sense to me is that the agreement 
was probably to keep the order that the cars had when they made the 
final pit stops, and that they only pitted Norris first in order to 
never create a situation which would have put the third place car closer 
to them.