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From: Python <python@invalid.org>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Incorrect mathematical integration
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 22:27:53 +0200
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Le 24/07/2024 à 20:45, Paul.B.Andersen a écrit :
> Den 24.07.2024 15:08, skrev Richard Hachel:
>> Le 24/07/2024 à 14:47, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>
>>> Measured in the lab frame the proton is moving around
>>> the L = 27 km long ring in T = 90.0623065140618 μs.
>>> The very real speed of the proton relative to the lab is
>>> v = L/T =  0.999999991·c
>>>
>>> γ = 7460
>>>
>>> Measured in the proton frame, the length of the ring is
>>> L' = L/γ = 3.6193029490616624 m.
>>> The proton is moving around the L' long ring in the time
>>>  τ = T/γ = 12.072695243171824 ns
>>> The very real speed of the lab relative to the proton is
>>> v =  L'/τ = (L/γ)/(T/γ ) = L/T = 0.999999991·c
>>>
>>> This should be blazingly obvious for anybody but complete morons:
>>>
>>> If the proton is passing a point in the ring with the speed v
>>> relative to the point, then the point in the ring is passing
>>> the proton a the speed v relative to the proton.
> 
> A bit more precisely put:
> In the lab frame the proton is passing a point in the ring with
> the speed v = L/T =  0.999999991·c.
> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with
> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c.
> 
>>
>> This is the only interesting sentence in your post.
>> The rest is just nonsense or tautology.
>>
>> Indeed, if the proton passes at Vo=0.999991 c (for example) at a point 
>> A of the device, then the laws of physics state that point A passes at 
>> Vo=0.999991c.
> 
> 
>> If we transpose into real speed Vr, we have:
>> Vr=Vo/sqrt(1-Vo²/c)=235.7c
> 
> Nothing is moving at the speed L/τ = 235.7c
> 
>>
>> Likewise, this real speed is reciprocal.
> 
> The reciprocal of L/τ is (L/γ)/T = 0.0001340c
> 
> Equally meaningless. Not the speed of anything.
> 
>>
>> In the proton frame, it is point A which passes near it at Vr=235.7c.
> 
> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with
> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c.
> 
>>
>> Now what does the global ring look like in the proton frame of 
>> reference, and above all what is the trajectory of point A during one 
>> revolution?
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
> The point A is at any instant adjacent to the proton.
> We consider an arbitrary instant I.
> 
> Let K(x,t) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I
> is momentarily comoving with the point A.
> 
> The speed of the proton in K is v = dx/dt = L/T =  0.999999991·c
> 
> Do you know another definition of the speed of the proton in K
> than dx/dt ?
> 
> Let K'(x',τ) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I
> is momentarily comoving with the proton.
> 
> The speed of the point A in K' is v' = dx'/dτ = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c
> 
> Do you know another definition of the speed of the point A in K'
> than  dx'/dτ ?
> 
>> This is a good relativistic physics question.
>>
>> Have fun answering this question...
>>
>> I hope you have a lot of fun.
>>
> 
> Quite.
> But your jokes aren't funny the umpteenth time they are told,
> It is getting boring.

We are dealing on fr.sci.* with this idiot for thirty years, go figure!