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From: Python <python@invalid.org>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Incorrect mathematical integration
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 22:45:01 +0200
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Le 24/07/2024 à 22:41, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
> W dniu 24.07.2024 o 22:27, Python pisze:
>> Le 24/07/2024 à 20:45, Paul.B.Andersen a écrit :
>>> Den 24.07.2024 15:08, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>>> Le 24/07/2024 à 14:47, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Measured in the lab frame the proton is moving around
>>>>> the L = 27 km long ring in T = 90.0623065140618 μs.
>>>>> The very real speed of the proton relative to the lab is
>>>>> v = L/T =  0.999999991·c
>>>>>
>>>>> γ = 7460
>>>>>
>>>>> Measured in the proton frame, the length of the ring is
>>>>> L' = L/γ = 3.6193029490616624 m.
>>>>> The proton is moving around the L' long ring in the time
>>>>>  τ = T/γ = 12.072695243171824 ns
>>>>> The very real speed of the lab relative to the proton is
>>>>> v =  L'/τ = (L/γ)/(T/γ ) = L/T = 0.999999991·c
>>>>>
>>>>> This should be blazingly obvious for anybody but complete morons:
>>>>>
>>>>> If the proton is passing a point in the ring with the speed v
>>>>> relative to the point, then the point in the ring is passing
>>>>> the proton a the speed v relative to the proton.
>>>
>>> A bit more precisely put:
>>> In the lab frame the proton is passing a point in the ring with
>>> the speed v = L/T =  0.999999991·c.
>>> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with
>>> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is the only interesting sentence in your post.
>>>> The rest is just nonsense or tautology.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, if the proton passes at Vo=0.999991 c (for example) at a 
>>>> point A of the device, then the laws of physics state that point A 
>>>> passes at Vo=0.999991c.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If we transpose into real speed Vr, we have:
>>>> Vr=Vo/sqrt(1-Vo²/c)=235.7c
>>>
>>> Nothing is moving at the speed L/τ = 235.7c
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Likewise, this real speed is reciprocal.
>>>
>>> The reciprocal of L/τ is (L/γ)/T = 0.0001340c
>>>
>>> Equally meaningless. Not the speed of anything.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In the proton frame, it is point A which passes near it at Vr=235.7c.
>>>
>>> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with
>>> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now what does the global ring look like in the proton frame of 
>>>> reference, and above all what is the trajectory of point A during 
>>>> one revolution?
>>>
>>> Irrelevant.
>>>
>>> The point A is at any instant adjacent to the proton.
>>> We consider an arbitrary instant I.
>>>
>>> Let K(x,t) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I
>>> is momentarily comoving with the point A.
>>>
>>> The speed of the proton in K is v = dx/dt = L/T =  0.999999991·c
>>>
>>> Do you know another definition of the speed of the proton in K
>>> than dx/dt ?
>>>
>>> Let K'(x',τ) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I
>>> is momentarily comoving with the proton.
>>>
>>> The speed of the point A in K' is v' = dx'/dτ = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c
>>>
>>> Do you know another definition of the speed of the point A in K'
>>> than  dx'/dτ ?
>>>
>>>> This is a good relativistic physics question.
>>>>
>>>> Have fun answering this question...
>>>>
>>>> I hope you have a lot of fun.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Quite.
>>> But your jokes aren't funny the umpteenth time they are told,
>>> It is getting boring.
>>
>> We are dealing on fr.sci.* with this idiot for thirty years, go figure!
> 
> 
> And whatever you say - Poincare 

.... would kick your asses: yours and Lengrand's.

> poor stinker

Nice signature Wozniak.