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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Python <python@invalid.org> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: Incorrect mathematical integration Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 23:01:21 +0200 Organization: CCCP Lines: 113 Message-ID: <v7rq31$1so3g$4@dont-email.me> References: <EKV4LWfwyF4mvRIpW8X1iiirzQk@jntp> <v7h59v$3mabh$1@dont-email.me> <UqTpLIJxvD4VcXT01kWm7g9OGtU@jntp> <v7jnc7$7jpq$1@dont-email.me> <KRDL-sfeKg0KUbMuUiMzTEhYDwk@jntp> <v7mc8d$pmhs$1@dont-email.me> <9w4qQAYIGHNeJtHg4ZR1m_Ooxo4@jntp> <v7p7bu$1cd5m$1@dont-email.me> <oEpFQDJJhcpYoGFheTTVIKntZUE@jntp> <v7qt4k$1obhi$1@dont-email.me> <2DB5P6IpybAncHUWmFdX55lJN7A@jntp> <v7ri3a$1rs1b$1@dont-email.me> <v7ro49$1so3g$2@dont-email.me> <17e540d4e0c990d4$138327$505029$c2365abb@news.newsdemon.com> <v7rp4e$1so3g$3@dont-email.me> <17e54195bb948c54$20532$558427$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 23:01:21 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="883b902ece748a0f80a170cf2e91f70e"; logging-data="1990768"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18y6EUos3HzLY34rFfCv3mo" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:/MRgGFke8pB1vh/5Jb16fxjI98k= In-Reply-To: <17e54195bb948c54$20532$558427$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5561 Le 24/07/2024 à 22:55, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : > W dniu 24.07.2024 o 22:45, Python pisze: >> Le 24/07/2024 à 22:41, Maciej Wozniak a écrit : >>> W dniu 24.07.2024 o 22:27, Python pisze: >>>> Le 24/07/2024 à 20:45, Paul.B.Andersen a écrit : >>>>> Den 24.07.2024 15:08, skrev Richard Hachel: >>>>>> Le 24/07/2024 à 14:47, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Measured in the lab frame the proton is moving around >>>>>>> the L = 27 km long ring in T = 90.0623065140618 μs. >>>>>>> The very real speed of the proton relative to the lab is >>>>>>> v = L/T = 0.999999991·c >>>>>>> >>>>>>> γ = 7460 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Measured in the proton frame, the length of the ring is >>>>>>> L' = L/γ = 3.6193029490616624 m. >>>>>>> The proton is moving around the L' long ring in the time >>>>>>> τ = T/γ = 12.072695243171824 ns >>>>>>> The very real speed of the lab relative to the proton is >>>>>>> v = L'/τ = (L/γ)/(T/γ ) = L/T = 0.999999991·c >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This should be blazingly obvious for anybody but complete morons: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the proton is passing a point in the ring with the speed v >>>>>>> relative to the point, then the point in the ring is passing >>>>>>> the proton a the speed v relative to the proton. >>>>> >>>>> A bit more precisely put: >>>>> In the lab frame the proton is passing a point in the ring with >>>>> the speed v = L/T = 0.999999991·c. >>>>> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with >>>>> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the only interesting sentence in your post. >>>>>> The rest is just nonsense or tautology. >>>>>> >>>>>> Indeed, if the proton passes at Vo=0.999991 c (for example) at a >>>>>> point A of the device, then the laws of physics state that point A >>>>>> passes at Vo=0.999991c. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> If we transpose into real speed Vr, we have: >>>>>> Vr=Vo/sqrt(1-Vo²/c)=235.7c >>>>> >>>>> Nothing is moving at the speed L/τ = 235.7c >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Likewise, this real speed is reciprocal. >>>>> >>>>> The reciprocal of L/τ is (L/γ)/T = 0.0001340c >>>>> >>>>> Equally meaningless. Not the speed of anything. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In the proton frame, it is point A which passes near it at Vr=235.7c. >>>>> >>>>> In the proton frame the point in the ring is passing the proton with >>>>> the speed v = (L/γ)/τ = 0.999999991·c. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now what does the global ring look like in the proton frame of >>>>>> reference, and above all what is the trajectory of point A during >>>>>> one revolution? >>>>> >>>>> Irrelevant. >>>>> >>>>> The point A is at any instant adjacent to the proton. >>>>> We consider an arbitrary instant I. >>>>> >>>>> Let K(x,t) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I >>>>> is momentarily comoving with the point A. >>>>> >>>>> The speed of the proton in K is v = dx/dt = L/T = 0.999999991·c >>>>> >>>>> Do you know another definition of the speed of the proton in K >>>>> than dx/dt ? >>>>> >>>>> Let K'(x',τ) be an inertial frame of reference which at the instant I >>>>> is momentarily comoving with the proton. >>>>> >>>>> The speed of the point A in K' is v' = dx'/dτ = (L/γ)/τ = >>>>> 0.999999991·c >>>>> >>>>> Do you know another definition of the speed of the point A in K' >>>>> than dx'/dτ ? >>>>> >>>>>> This is a good relativistic physics question. >>>>>> >>>>>> Have fun answering this question... >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you have a lot of fun. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quite. >>>>> But your jokes aren't funny the umpteenth time they are told, >>>>> It is getting boring. >>>> >>>> We are dealing on fr.sci.* with this idiot for thirty years, go figure! >>> >>> >>> And whatever you say - Poincare >> >> ... would kick your asses: yours and Lengrand's. > > Could be. No doubt about that. Glad to see you admit it. Is that because you *know* you're posting bs?