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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Because I have repeated this same point 500 times in the last three years... Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 09:15:21 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 122 Message-ID: <v82vdp$3dftr$5@dont-email.me> References: <v7uvbq$2h6oq$1@dont-email.me> <v7vnia$2or92$1@dont-email.me> <v807kv$2rabc$1@dont-email.me> <v828dn$3a0jc$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 16:15:22 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c4ee90cee71e7f0114aee78a4820d739"; logging-data="3588027"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19+ES5MJZvprf1tjDzqcvfZ" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:u8hRefqkLERSWrE0/NUt1Mm5XPw= In-Reply-To: <v828dn$3a0jc$1@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5974 On 7/27/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-07-26 13:17:19 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 7/26/2024 3:42 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-07-26 01:49:46 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> If you understand the x86 language and can't tell how DDD >>>> emulated by HHH differs from DDD emulated by HHH1 by the >>>> following then you are probably lying about understanding >>>> the x86 language. > > Any emulation of DDD that differs from DDD is wrong. > OK so you are lying about knowing the x86 language or don't bother to study the execution trace well enough. _Infinite_Recursion() [0000215a] 55 push ebp [0000215b] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000215d] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a ; recursive call [00002162] 5d pop ebp [00002163] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0010) [00002163] Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:113934 Decide_Halting_HH:1 [0000215a][00113924][00113928] 55 push ebp [0000215b][00113924][00113928] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000215d][00113920][00002162] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a [0000215a][0011391c][00113924] 55 push ebp [0000215b][0011391c][00113924] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000215d][00113918][00002162] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a Local Halt Decider: *Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped* If you can't understand how the above proves infinite recursion you won't be able to understand how DDD correctly emulated by HHH proves recursive simulation. It is the same non-halting behavior pattern in both cases. Since HHH does not know that DDD is calling itself HHH only sees infinite recursion and not does not recursive simulation. _DDD() [00002177] 55 push ebp [00002178] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000217a] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD [0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH [00002184] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002187] 5d pop ebp [00002188] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002188] _main() [00002197] 55 push ebp [00002198] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000219a] 6877210000 push 00002177 ' push DDD [0000219f] e863f3ffff call 00001507 ; call HH1 [000021a4] 83c404 add esp,+04 [000021a7] 33c0 xor eax,eax [000021a9] 5d pop ebp [000021aa] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0020) [000021aa] machine stack stack machine assembly address address data code language ======== ======== ======== ========= ============= [00002197][001037fb][00000000] 55 push ebp [00002198][001037fb][00000000] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000219a][001037f7][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD [0000219f][001037f3][000021a4] e863f3ffff call 00001507 ; call HHH1 New slave_stack at:10389f // emulates 1st instance of DDD that calls HHH(DDD) Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:1138a7 [00002177][00113897][0011389b] 55 push ebp [00002178][00113897][0011389b] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000217a][00113893][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD [0000217f][0011388f][00002184] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH New slave_stack at:14e2c7 // emulates 2nd instance of DDD that calls HHH(DDD) Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:15e2cf [00002177][0015e2bf][0015e2c3] 55 push ebp [00002178][0015e2bf][0015e2c3] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000217a][0015e2bb][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD [0000217f][0015e2b7][00002184] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH New slave_stack at:198cef // emulates 3rd instance of DDD that calls HHH(DDD) [00002177][001a8ce7][001a8ceb] 55 push ebp [00002178][001a8ce7][001a8ceb] 8bec mov ebp,esp [0000217a][001a8ce3][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD [0000217f][001a8cdf][00002184] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH Local Halt Decider: *Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped* // returns to 1st instance of DDD emulated by HHH1 [00002184][00113897][0011389b] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002187][0011389b][000015bc] 5d pop ebp [00002188][0011389f][0003a980] c3 ret // return to main [000021a4][001037fb][00000000] 83c404 add esp,+04 [000021a7][001037fb][00000000] 33c0 xor eax,eax [000021a9][001037ff][00000018] 5d pop ebp [000021aa][00103803][00000000] c3 ret Number of Instructions Executed(352831) == 5266 Pages This is the exact same pattern with Infinite_Recursion() where there are no conditional branch instructions that would prevent the first three instructions of Infinite_Recursion() from endlessly repeating. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer