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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the
 execution trace
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 17:37:40 -0500
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On 7/27/2024 5:23 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 7/27/2024 4:45 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 7/27/2024 4:16 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/27/2024 3:20 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/27/2024 1:14 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>>> Stopping running is not the same as halting.  DDD emulated by
>>>>>>>>>> HHH stops running when its emulation has been aborted.  This is
>>>>>>>>>> not the same as reaching its ret instruction and terminating
>>>>>>>>>> normally (AKA halting).
> 
>>>>>>>>> I think you're wrong, here.  All your C programs are a stand in
>>>>>>>>> for turing machines.  A turing machine is either running or
>>>>>>>>> halted.  There is no third state "aborted".
> 
>>>>>>>> Until you take the conventional ideas of
>>>>>>>> (a) UTM
>>>>>>>> (b) TM Description
>>>>>>>> (c) Decider
>>>>>>>> and combine them together to become a simulating partial halt decider.
> 
>>>>>>> Where does the notion of "aborted", as being distinct from halted, come
>>>>>>> from?
> 
> 
>>>>>> After all of these years and you don't get that?
> 
>>>>> "Aborted" being distinct from halted is an incoherent notion.  It isn't
>>>>> consistent with turing machines.  I was hoping you could give a
>>>>> justification for it.
> 
>>>>>> A simulating partial halt decider can stop simulating
>>>>>> its input when it detects a non-halting behavior pattern.
>>>>>> This does not count as the input halting.
> 
>>>>> Says who?  Well, OK, it would be the machine halting, not the input, but
>>>>> that's a small point.
> 
> 
>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>> {
>>>>     Infinite_Recursion();
>>>> }
> 
>>> [ .... ]
> 
>>>> Do you understand that HHH(Infinite_Recursion) correctly
>>>> implements this criteria for the above input?
> 
>>> There's nothing wrong with my understanding, but I'm not sure what
>>> "implementing a criterion (not "criteria")" means,
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>> HHH correctly simulates Infinite_Recursion until it correctly
>> detects a the non-halting behavior pattern that every programmer
>> can see.
> 
>> You dodged the question about whether you can see this
>> non-halting behavior pattern on the basis of this x86 code:
> 
> It was an incoherent question.  What on Earth does "implementing a
> criterion" even mean?  But I told you there's nothing amiss with my
> understanding.
> 

*Implementing the Sipser approved criterion measure means*
  that HHH simulates Infinite_Recursion until it sees that
  Infinite_Recursion cannot possibly halt.

*Implementing the Sipser approved criterion measure means*
  that HHH simulates Infinite_Recursion until it sees that
  Infinite_Recursion cannot possibly halt.

*Implementing the Sipser approved criterion measure means*
  that HHH simulates Infinite_Recursion until it sees that
  Infinite_Recursion cannot possibly halt.

*Then HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion*
  When HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion HHH has
  aborted its simulation of Infinite_Recursion.

*Then HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion*
  When HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion HHH has
  aborted its simulation of Infinite_Recursion.

*Then HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion*
  When HHH stops simulating Infinite_Recursion HHH has
  aborted its simulation of Infinite_Recursion.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer