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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: This function proves that only the outermost HHH examines the
 execution trace
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 07:59:59 -0500
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On 7/29/2024 2:27 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-07-28 23:54:54 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 7/28/2024 4:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-27 18:20:19 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 7/27/2024 1:14 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stopping running is not the same as halting.
>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH stops running when its emulation has been 
>>>>>> aborted.
>>>>>> This is not the same as reaching its ret instruction and terminating
>>>>>> normally (AKA halting).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you're wrong, here.  All your C programs are a stand in for
>>>>> turing machines.  A turing machine is either running or halted.  
>>>>> There is
>>>>> no third state "aborted".
>>>>
>>>> Until you take the conventional ideas of
>>>> (a) UTM
>>>> (b) TM Description
>>>> (c) Decider
>>>> and combine them together to become a simulating partial halt decider.
>>>
>>> You also need the conventional ideas of halting and halt decider.
>>> The latter is largely a combination of the conventional ideas of
>>> decider and halting but also involves the conventional of
>>> prediction, so you need that, too.
>>>
>>> Although the conventional idea of testing is not relevant to the 
>>> construction of a simulating partial halt decider it is helpful to 
>>> presentation of the
>>> result, especially if your target audience contains software 
>>> engineers. If your target audience is mainly mathematicians the 
>>> convnetional idea of proofs is more useful because in that case most 
>>> of your presentation must be proofs.
>>
>> My ideas must be anchored in fully specified running software
>> otherwise the false assumptions made by computer science people
>> remain hidden.
> 
> There is no "must" there. You may present your ideas whichever way you
> think is the best for your purposes.
> 

Even when I make my ideas 100% concrete people still deny
the verified facts.When I make them less than 100% concrete
it is not as specific as verified facts.

> One good way to avoid false assumptions is to clearly state what is
> assumed instead. Sometimes it may be necessary to clearly state what
> is not assumed.
> 
>> Even when I slap them in the face with proven facts they deny
>> these proven facts on the basis of their indoctrination.
> 
> Facts are never proven. They are observed.
> 

You didn't even bother to look at how HHH examines the
execution trace of Infinite_Recursion() to determine that 
Infinite_Recursion() specifies non-halting behavior.

Because of this you cannot see that the execution trace
of DDD correctly emulated by DDD is essentially this same
trace and thus also specifies non-halting behavior.

void Infinite_Recursion()
{
   Infinite_Recursion();
}

_Infinite_Recursion()
[0000215a] 55         push ebp      ; 1st line
[0000215b] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000215d] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a ; 3rd line
[00002162] 5d         pop ebp
[00002163] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0010) [00002163]

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:113934
[0000215a][00113924][00113928] 55         push ebp      ; 1st line
[0000215b][00113924][00113928] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000215d][00113920][00002162] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a ; 3rd line
[0000215a][0011391c][00113924] 55         push ebp      ; 1st line
[0000215b][0011391c][00113924] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000215d][00113918][00002162] e8f8ffffff call 0000215a ; 3rd line
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

=====

void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
}

_DDD()
[00002177] 55               push ebp      ; 1st line
[00002178] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000217a] 6877210000       push 00002177 ; push DDD
[0000217f] e853f4ffff       call 000015d7 ; call HHH
[00002184] 83c404           add esp,+04
[00002187] 5d               pop ebp
[00002188] c3               ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002188]

// executed HHH emulates 1st instance of DDD
New slave_stack at:10388d
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:113895
[00002177][00113885][00113889] 55         push ebp      ; 1st line
[00002178][00113885][00113889] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000217a][00113881][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD
[0000217f][0011387d][00002184] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH

// emulated HHH emulates 2nd instance of DDD
New slave_stack at:14e2b5
[00002177][0015e2ad][0015e2b1] 55         push ebp      ; 1st line
[00002178][0015e2ad][0015e2b1] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 2nd line
[0000217a][0015e2a9][00002177] 6877210000 push 00002177 ; push DDD
[0000217f][0015e2a5][00002184] e853f4ffff call 000015d7 ; call HHH
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer