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Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the computation that itself is contained within Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 11:32:00 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 45 Message-ID: <v88g60$i7kl$5@dont-email.me> References: <v80irs$2tlb5$1@dont-email.me> <v828ju$3a1gf$1@dont-email.me> <v82vpu$3dftr$6@dont-email.me> <v8506m$3s27b$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 18:32:01 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9d358cc663705f17d44fb4afa23cd753"; logging-data="597653"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19jl/rj+rgB5F4Lpbr6XEF9" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:a0zVKbD7NfhDgy+iKsRWmTithIY= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v8506m$3s27b$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 2706 On 7/28/2024 3:40 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-07-27 14:21:50 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 7/27/2024 2:46 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-07-26 16:28:43 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> No decider is ever accountable for the behavior of the >>>> computation that itself is contained within. >>> >>> That claim is fully unjustified. How do you even define "accountable" >>> in the context of computations, automata, and deciders? >> >> int sum(int x, int y){ return x + y; } >> sum(5,6) is not accountable for reporting sum(3,2). > > That claim is fully unjustified. How do you even define "accountable" > in the context of computations, automata, and deciders? > >> It computes the mapping from its input to the value of their sum. > > That's obvious but is it relevant? > >> HHH must compute the mapping from its input finite string >> of the x86 machine code of DDD to the behavior that this >> finite string specifies and then report on the halt status >> of this behavior. > > Now is that relevant? > Halt deciders report the halt status on the basis of the behavior that a finite string input specifies. Did you think that halt deciders report the halt status on some other basis? Halt deciders are not allowed to report on the behavior of the actual computation that they themselves are contained within. They are only allowed to compute the mapping from input finite strings. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer