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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: No decider is accountable for the computation that itself is
 contained within
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 16:22:49 -0500
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On 7/30/2024 4:09 PM, joes wrote:
> Am Tue, 30 Jul 2024 15:13:34 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 7/30/2024 2:52 PM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Tue, 30 Jul 2024 11:24:35 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 7/30/2024 2:24 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Mon, 29 Jul 2024 15:32:44 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>> On 7/29/2024 3:17 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Mon, 29 Jul 2024 11:32:00 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 7/28/2024 3:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-27 14:21:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/27/2024 2:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-26 16:28:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not allowed to report on the behavior of the
>>>>>>>> actual computation that they themselves are contained within. They
>>>>>>>> are only allowed to compute the mapping from input finite strings.
>>>>>>> What if the input is the same as the containing computation?
>>>>>> It always is except in the case where the decider is reporting on
>>>>>> the TM description that itself is contained within.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't understand. "The input is not the same as the containing
>>>>> computation when deciding on the description of the containing
>>>>> computation"?
>>> I mean: is that an accurate paraphrase?
>>>
>>>> An executing Turing machine is not allowed to report on its own
>>>> behavior. Every decider is only allowed to report on the behavior that
>>>> its finite string input specifies.
>>> And what happens when those are the same?

>> That is always the case except in the rare exception that I discovered
>> where a simulating halt decider is simulating the input that calls
>> itself.

> Always? Most TMs don't get themselves as input. OTOH that is one of
> the most interesting cases.
> The description of a TM specifies the behaviour of that machine
> when it is running.
> 

The x86 code of DDD when correctly emulated by HHH according
to the semantics of the x86 code of DDD and HHH does have
different behavior that the directly executed DDD as a matter
of verified fact for three years.

People deny this as if a smash a Boston Cream pie in the face
and they deny that there ever was any pie even while their
voice is incoherent because they are talking through the pie
smashed on their face.

*I do not a more precise way to say this now*
DDD is emulated by HHH according to the semantics of the
x86 code of DDD and HHH. This does include a recursive call
from DDD to HHH(DDD) that cannot possibly stop repeating
unless HHH aborts its emulation of DDD.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer