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From: Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: "Sampler??"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 21:58:44 -0000 (UTC)
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On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 21:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 13:15:59 -0700, john larkin wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 19:21:28 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>> <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:39:37 -0700, john larkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:58:35 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>>>> <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 05:16:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Jul 2024 09:29:04 -0700) it happened john
>>>>>> larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
>>>>>> <72gfajl8ke966lsu54bpajpang9dvgmt63@4ax.com>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>><alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 28 Jul 2024 21:40:41 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>>>>>>>Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>><v86dsp$3n74$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I still can't see where the 'sampling' bit comes into it. AFAICT,
>>>>>>>>>there's are two signals into this thing and one signal out. The
>>>>>>>>>signal from the LHS is passed through a very fast diode which
>>>>>>>>>generates harmonics from that fundamental. The signal from the
>>>>>>>>>RHS is unmodified and mixed with the desired harmonic to give the
>>>>>>>>>necessary output signal which is then filtered to get rid of the
>>>>>>>>>unwanted mixing products. If that's all correct, as I believe it
>>>>>>>>>is,
>>>>>>>>>where does any *sampling* come into it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A 'sampler' is fact a non-linear mixer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the audio world, a "mixer" is a linear summer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In RF, a mixer is usually a multiplier, typically a 4-quadrant
>>>>>>>diode thing or a Gilbert cell type circuit. Or a 2-quadrant thing
>>>>>>>like a pentode. Or even a single diode. All do some flavor of
>>>>>>>multiplying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some mixers inherently multiply a signal by a square wave, which
>>>>>>>resembles other multiplier-type things once you lowpass filter the
>>>>>>>output. That's a "synchronous detector", which we usually do in an
>>>>>>>FPGA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>A sampler is a signal multiplier too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>These are all variations on the basic idea of multiplying two
>>>>>>>signals.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A the word 'mixer' in RF is not the same as a multiplier,,
>>>>>> Multipliers are like harmonic generating stages say you have a 1
>>>>>> MHz distorted sine wave and then a second stage tuned at 3 MHz,..
>>>>>> turned to third harmonic.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> mamamatical speaking RF mixing is indeed multiplication.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Like Shakepierce once said:
>>>>>>  "What's in a name..." CocaCola wihout coke
>>>>>
>>>>>I think in this context, HP is using the term "sampler" to mean
>>>>>something which 'sniffs' a small amount of a signal for testing
>>>>>purposes. Like a few turns of wire around a transmission line will
>>>>>'sniff' a small sample of what's going on in the line.
>>>>>Where I went wrong was rigidly thinking HP meant 'sampling' in the
>>>>>manner a sampling oscilloscope works. That's what threw me. I tend to
>>>>>interpret things very literally. :(
>>>> 
>>>> The sampler in the SA schematic is precisely the sort of sampler used
>>>> in a sampling scope. It contains a step-recovery diode impulse
>>>> generator and no doubt some sampling diodes.
>>>
>>>How can you say that when you haven't seen the schematic? If you've
>>>been able to find it online somewhere then kindly post a link to it
>>>here.
>> 
>> You posted an excerpt from the HP manual where the sampler is
>> described.
> 
> But you said:
> "The sampler in the SA schematic is precisely the sort of sampler used
> in a sampling scope."
> 
> So you must have had sight of the schematic. I'd really appreciate it if
> you could post a link to it.

Also, you said the SRD was acting as an "impulse generator" when I assumed 
it was simply generating harmonics to boost the M/N loop output up in 
order to mix with the output of the YTO.