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Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: "Sampler??" Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:27:15 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 107 Message-ID: <v8l46j$3e34d$1@dont-email.me> References: <v85va8$19le$1@dont-email.me> <v86dsp$3n74$1@dont-email.me> <v878oa$gbtu$1@solani.org> <72gfajl8ke966lsu54bpajpang9dvgmt63@4ax.com> <v89sv9$hq1q$1@solani.org> <v8a9vr$v9r2$1@dont-email.me> <v8afo4$i3b7$1@solani.org> <v8aiaf$10lqo$1@dont-email.me> <v8auku$iedg$1@solani.org> <v8avr7$13368$1@dont-email.me> <v8d563$jhaa$1@solani.org> <v8dios$1kovj$1@dont-email.me> <v8f5i7$kga6$1@solani.org> <v8fgt4$231a4$1@dont-email.me> <v8hpqg$m5gj$1@solani.org> <v8ib8k$2p2d8$1@dont-email.me> <v8iht5$2qbi1$1@dont-email.me> <v8j0a6$2t2o7$2@dont-email.me> <v8kgim$nfu4$1@solani.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2024 13:27:15 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="03eb6a93b7c7fa76642236c5aa1290c1"; logging-data="3607693"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19puRToug13CZslrhrWKuOijn9HacGDuCA=" User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba) Cancel-Lock: sha1:8nNXlSKHr0kCAWa/XnWDht20tRM= Bytes: 5819 On Sat, 03 Aug 2024 05:52:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: > On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:08:38 -0000 (UTC)) it happened > Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in > <v8j0a6$2t2o7$2@dont-email.me>: > >>On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:02:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >>> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:09:24 -0000 (UTC)) it happened >>> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in >>> <v8ib8k$2p2d8$1@dont-email.me>: >>> >>>>On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 05:11:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>> >>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 1 Aug 2024 08:27:16 -0000 (UTC)) it happened >>>>> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in >>>>> <v8fgt4$231a4$1@dont-email.me>: >>>>> >>>>>>... >>>>>>I moved overseas and couldn't hold on to everything, sadly. Didn't >>>>>>have time to find a museum either. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As to repair / fault finding of that thing we were talking about, >>>>> I dunno what the symptoms are? >>>>> But after letting the 100 pages or so sink in in my brain: >>>>> Like somebody mentioned, check power supply (caps) for ripple with a >>>>> scope, >>>>> supply voltages. >>>> >>>>Yes, first thing I did. And replaced any suspect caps. >>>> >>>>> Likely source of damage is the input stage (may have been >>>>> overloaded, >>>>> manual shows strict limits) >>>> >>>>No, the input stage is fine. I can see all the local FM stations at >>>>their expected strength levels - but they appear to be about 20Mhz >>>>lower than they are! >>> >>> The 'about' 20 MHz is susicous, as the IF is 21.4 MHz. >> >>There are several IFs, none of which none are 21.4Mhz according to the >>notes in the text. They state the IF changes according to band, so it's >>3621.4Mhz for band 0, -321.4Mhz for band 1 and +321.4Mhz for bands 2, 3 >>and 4. > > Page 10 of the manual, quote: > rear panel IF outputs > 21.4 MHz IF Output Wow! What a lot of IFs! > > > > >>> Looks almost like a problem with the calibration On page 12 of the >>> manual I see an internal reference output, >>> is that 10 MHz correct? >> >>Yes. >> >>> What happens when yu feed in 10 MHz from an other source? >> >>What's your thinking in that suggestion? What difference could it make? >> >>> quote from that page: >>> To lock the spectrum analyzer to an external frequency reference, >>> set the FREQ REFERENCE Analyzer performance will be degraded unless >>> frequency reference phase noise and spurious sign dBc single >>> sideband (1 Hz) referred to 10 MHz at a 100 Hz to 10 kHz offset. To >>> lock another spect the spectrum analyzer internal frequency >>> reference, set the FREQ REFERENCE switch to INT >> >>Well, I've just wasted several more futile hours trying to make sense of >>the figures given in the manuals. This thing is a *bitch* it is *so* >>complicated. I've never had to deal with something of this nature before >>in all my decades in the hobby. Much of the problem is having to rely on >>PDF manuals and HP having spread the relevant information over several >>different manuals covering thousands of pages. Nice work, HP! > > I agree, in broadcasting we demanded full circuit diagrams and support > from any manufacturer that we had equipment from. > And spare parts too.. > Else no buy I remember going to an Ampex training for 3 weeks in Germany > for their latest video tape recorders coming back with several kg of > schematics and papers. > That HP documentation is crap, the drawings suck, looks to me they are > very hard trying to hide how it really works, > or the one who 'painted' it had no clue, or both. > It would never have been accepted by us. > But that HP stuff is simple compared to what was around in a studio. > > A simple block diagram would be a good idea. > But they do not even know how to draw a signal path, using arrows > for connectors, crap. > > Anyways, just use you shortwave radio, or soundcard, or better even a > rtl_sdr stick. > Using the SSB mode in shortwave with a decent modern radio, like my > Tecsun portable allows you to tune to a few Hz (zero carrier beep). > > Do you have a boat? Anchors are useful. They are indeed. And perhaps that's the best use for all these many and various HP manuals! :-D