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From: Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: "Sampler??"
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2024 11:27:15 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Sat, 03 Aug 2024 05:52:22 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Aug 2024 16:08:38 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in
> <v8j0a6$2t2o7$2@dont-email.me>:
> 
>>On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 12:02:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>
>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 2 Aug 2024 10:09:24 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in
>>> <v8ib8k$2p2d8$1@dont-email.me>:
>>> 
>>>>On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 05:11:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 1 Aug 2024 08:27:16 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>>>> Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in
>>>>> <v8fgt4$231a4$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>...
>>>>>>I moved overseas and couldn't hold on to everything, sadly. Didn't
>>>>>>have time to find a museum either.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> As to repair / fault finding of that thing we were talking about,
>>>>> I dunno what the symptoms are?
>>>>> But after letting the 100 pages or so sink in in my brain:
>>>>> Like somebody mentioned, check power supply (caps) for ripple with a
>>>>> scope,
>>>>> supply voltages.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, first thing I did. And replaced any suspect caps.
>>>>
>>>>> Likely source of damage is the input stage (may have been
>>>>> overloaded,
>>>>> manual shows strict limits)
>>>>
>>>>No, the input stage is fine. I can see all the local FM stations at
>>>>their expected strength levels - but they appear to be about 20Mhz
>>>>lower than they are!
>>> 
>>> The 'about' 20 MHz is susicous, as the IF is 21.4 MHz.
>>
>>There are several IFs, none of which none are 21.4Mhz according to the
>>notes in the text. They state the IF changes according to band, so it's
>>3621.4Mhz for band 0, -321.4Mhz for band 1 and +321.4Mhz for bands 2, 3
>>and 4.
> 
> Page 10 of the manual, quote:
> rear panel IF outputs
>  21.4 MHz IF Output

Wow! What a lot of IFs!

> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> Looks almost like a problem with the calibration On page 12 of the
>>> manual I see an internal reference output,
>>> is that 10 MHz correct?
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>> What happens when yu feed in 10 MHz from an other source?
>>
>>What's your thinking in that suggestion? What difference could it make?
>>
>>>  quote from that page:
>>>   To lock the spectrum analyzer to an external frequency reference,
>>>   set the FREQ REFERENCE Analyzer performance will be degraded unless
>>>   frequency reference phase noise and spurious sign dBc single
>>>   sideband (1 Hz) referred to 10 MHz at a 100 Hz to 10 kHz offset. To
>>>   lock another spect the spectrum analyzer internal frequency
>>>   reference, set the FREQ REFERENCE switch to INT
>>
>>Well, I've just wasted several more futile hours trying to make sense of
>>the figures given in the manuals. This thing is a *bitch* it is *so*
>>complicated. I've never had to deal with something of this nature before
>>in all my decades in the hobby. Much of the problem is having to rely on
>>PDF manuals and HP having spread the relevant information over several
>>different manuals covering thousands of pages. Nice work, HP!
> 
> I agree, in broadcasting we demanded full circuit diagrams and support
> from any manufacturer that we had equipment from.
> And spare parts too..
> Else no buy I remember going to an Ampex training for 3 weeks in Germany
> for their latest video tape recorders coming back with several kg of
> schematics and papers.
> That HP documentation is crap, the drawings suck, looks to me they are
> very hard trying to hide how it really works,
> or the one who 'painted' it had no clue, or both.
> It would never have been accepted by us.
> But that HP stuff is simple compared to what was around in a studio.
> 
> A simple block diagram would be a good idea.
> But they do not even know how to draw a        signal path, using arrows
> for connectors, crap.
> 
> Anyways, just use you shortwave radio, or soundcard, or better even a
> rtl_sdr stick.
> Using the SSB mode in shortwave with a decent modern radio, like my
> Tecsun portable allows you to tune to a few Hz (zero carrier beep).
> 
> Do you have a boat? Anchors are useful.

They are indeed. And perhaps that's the best use for all these many and 
various HP manuals! :-D