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From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Wiki edit for the Phillip Johnson page
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2024 20:03:39 -0500
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On 8/4/2024 4:04 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2024-08-04 18:25:54 +0000, RonO said:
> 
>> The Phillip Johnson wiki page has been edited and the quote from the 
>> Berkeley Science Review where he admitted that there was no theory of 
>> intelligent design has been removed.
> 
> This was done on 18th June at 23.31 (one of many edits he did that day) 
> by an editor whose user name is GuardianH. Many of his edits are quite 
> sensible so I wonder if this was just a mistake. Anyway, I have written 
> to him asking him to explain. I'll let you know if anything useful emerges.

As far as I know Phillip Johnson never contested what was in the 
article, nor retracted what he had said.

Around that time the ID perps held a 15 year anniversary celebration for 
Johnson's book Darwin on Trial, and Johnson did not participate.  At the 
time I thought that it was strange that Johnson would not acknowledge 
something done in his honor, but then this article started to be quoted 
and it looked like Johnson had quit supporting teaching ID in the public 
schools.

Johnson had sat in the courtroom every day and witnessed the difference 
between real science (what he wanted to denigrate as "Darwinism") and 
the ID scam, and he probably finally understood why the bait and switch 
had been going down for the previous 3 years, and why the other ID perps 
had given up on teaching ID as part of the Wedge strategy.

I think that Johnson was likely misled by the other ID perps.  They 
obviously didn't tell him that they were going to run the bait and 
switch scam on the Ohio rubes or he would not have come out as 
supporting teaching ID there back in 2002.  Willful ignorance probably 
allowed him to continue on, and support teaching ID in Dover when the 
other ID perps were trying to get the Dover rubes to not teach the junk. 
  He and Santorum both had, had the bait and switch run on them in Ohio, 
but both of them still supported teaching ID in Dover.  It is sort of 
nuts that neither of them understood why the bait and switch had to go 
down in every single case where creationists wanted to teach ID.  No one 
had gotten the ID science to teach for 3 years of trying, and yet both 
Johnson and Santorum still supported the Wedge strategy when it was 
obvious that most of the other ID perps did not support teaching the 
junk in Dover.

The ID perps are still selling the teach ID scam, but They claimed that 
they did not support teaching ID in the public schools when the West 
Virginia legislation passed, and they were not "requiring" ID to be 
taught.  After Dover the ID perps started to claim that the Judges 
decision was wrong, and that ID could still be taught in the public 
schools, but they did not want ID "required" to be taught.  This was 
found to be a lie back in 2013 when both Louisiana and Texas wanted ID 
taught in the public schools, but neither state was "requiring" it to be 
taught.  The bait and switch went down anyway, so the "requiring" 
modifier was never needed.

Ron Okimoto

>>
>> This is the WayBack link that works:
>> http://web.archive.org/web/20070609131601/http://sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles.php?issue=10&article=evolution
>>
>> QUOTE:
>> I also donâ€™t think that there is really a theory of intelligent design
>> at the present time to propose as a comparable alternative to the
>> Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a fully
>> worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory thatâ€™s
>> comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific
>> people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite
>> convinced that itâ€™s doable, but thatâ€™s for them to proveâ€¦No 
>> product is
>> ready for competition in the educational world.
>> END QUOTE:
>>
>> Johnson made the admission in 2006 after the Dover fiasco.  The ID 
>> perps tried to run the bait and switch on the Dover creationist rubes, 
>> but the ID perp responsible for making sure that the bait and switch 
>> went down dropped the ball, and did not follow up after telling the 
>> Dover rubes not to teach intelligent design, but they should try the 
>> obfuscation and denial switch scam instead.  The Dover rubes did not 
>> take his advice and tried to teach the junk anyways.  Phillip Johnson 
>> had, had the bait and switch run on him the first time in 2002 in 
>> Ohio.  Both He and then senator Santorum were all for getting ID 
>> taught in the Ohio public schools, but Meyer, Wells and a few others 
>> decided to start running the bait and switch instead of giving the 
>> rubes any ID science to teach (Wells included the decision to start 
>> running the bait and switch in his report on the Ohio fiasco).  The 
>> bait and switch went down on every group of creationist rubes that 
>> wanted to teach the scam junk for the next 3 years, but Johnson still 
>> came forward and supported teaching the ID scam junk in Dover.  He sat 
>> in the court room every day of testimony, and after that experience 
>> gave the Berkeley Science Review interview.
>>
>> The quote has been removed from the wiki artlcle for some reason.  It 
>> isn't controversial.  Johnson never claimed otherwise.  After 
>> publication I think that the Panda's Thumb was the first discussion 
>> group to put up the Johnson admission, and as far as I know Johnson 
>> never changed his mind.
>>
>> Ron Okimoto
> 
>