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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Arguments for a sane ISA 6-years later Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 19:30:51 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 30 Message-ID: <v8s1sr$1b9sv$1@dont-email.me> References: <b5d4a172469485e9799de44f5f120c73@www.novabbs.org> <v7ubd4$2e8dr$1@dont-email.me> <v7uc71$2ec3f$1@dont-email.me> <2024Jul26.190007@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2024 04:30:51 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="49cc1ebae54dd337cd29762bf6fa6814"; logging-data="1419167"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19DxTRUYqaXDgD7o905CVGJzjLjUWH6sNE=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:dSDX3zIII759B/8XwqoeTsvLmi8= In-Reply-To: <2024Jul26.190007@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 2377 On 7/26/2024 10:00 AM, Anton Ertl wrote: > "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> writes: >> On 7/25/2024 1:09 PM, BGB wrote: >>> At least with a weak model, software knows that if it doesn't go through >>> the rituals, the memory will be stale. > > There is no guarantee of staleness, only a lack of stronger ordering > guarantees. > >> The weak model is ideal for me. I know how to program for it > > And the fact that this model is so hard to use that few others know > how to program for it make it ideal for you. > >> and it's more efficient > > That depends on the hardware. > > Yes, the Alpha 21164 with its imprecise exceptions was "more > efficient" than other hardware for a while, then the Pentium Pro came > along and gave us precise exceptions and more efficiency. And > eventually the Alpha people learned the trick, too, and 21264 provided > precise exceptions (although they did not admit this) and more > efficieny. [...] Iirc, the Alpha requires a memory barrier even for RCU because, iirc, it does not honor data dependent loads... These are a no-op on most archs, but Alpha, well, nope!