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From: olcott <abc@def.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly
 reach its own return instruction final state?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 22:21:16 -0500
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On 8/5/2024 10:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 06/08/2024 03:25, olcott wrote:
>> On 8/5/2024 8:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 8/5/24 8:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/2024 5:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 8/5/24 9:49 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/5/2024 2:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-08-04 18:59:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/4/24 9:53 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 1:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 03.aug.2024 om 18:35 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>  >>>> ∞ instructions of DDD correctly emulated by HHH[∞] never
>>>>>>>>>>>> reach their own "return" instruction final state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you are saying that the infinite one does?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dreaming again of HHH that does not abort? Dreams are no 
>>>>>>>>>>> substitute for facts.
>>>>>>>>>>> The HHH that aborts and halts, halts. A tautology.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is the right answer to the wrong question.
>>>>>>>>>> I am asking whether or not DDD emulated by HHH
>>>>>>>>>> reaches its "return" instruction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the "DDD emulated by HHH" is the program DDD above,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I say DDD emulated by HHH I mean at any level of
>>>>>>>> emulation and not and direct execution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you mean anything other than what the words mean you wihout
>>>>>>> a definition in the beginning of the same message then it is
>>>>>>> not reasonable to expect anyone to understand what you mean.
>>>>>>> Instead people may think that you mean what you say or that
>>>>>>> you don't know what you are saying.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't understand what the word "emulate" means look it up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DDD (above) cannot possibly reach its own "return" instruction halt
>>>>>> state when its machine code is correctly emulated by HHH.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Only because an HHH that does so never returns to anybody.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you really not understand that recursive emulation <is>
>>>> isomorphic to infinite recursion?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not when the emulation is conditional.
>>>
>>
>> Infinite_Recursion() meets the exact same condition that DDD
>> emulated by HHH makes and you know this. Since you are so
>> persistently trying to get away contradicting the semantics
>> of the x86 language the time is coming where there is zero
>> doubt that this is an honest mistake.
>>
>> Ben does correctly understand that the first half of the Sipser
>> approved criteria is met. Even Mike finally admitted this.
> 
> I don't recall doing that.  Please provide a reference for this.
> 

On 8/2/2024 8:19 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
 > It's easy enough to say "PO has his own criterion for
 > halting, which is materially different from the HP condition,
 > and so we all agree PO is correct by his own criterion...

> (Of course, everything depends on what you take Sipser's quote to be 
> saying.  I choose to interpret it as I'm pretty confident that Sipser 
> intended, under which the first half is mpst certainly NOT met!)
> 
> 
> Mike.
> 
> 

<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then

     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>

void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
   return;
}

It is certainly the case that DDD correctly simulated by any
HHH cannot possibly stop running unless aborted.

I don't see how any expert in the C language can deny that
with a straight face. Four have affirmed it. Two of these
four have masters degrees in computer science.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer