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From: olcott <abc@def.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly
 reach its own return instruction final state?
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2024 22:58:55 -0500
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On 8/5/2024 10:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/5/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 8/5/2024 10:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> On 06/08/2024 03:25, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 8/5/2024 8:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 8/5/24 8:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/5/2024 5:59 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/5/24 9:49 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/5/2024 2:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-04 18:59:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/4/24 9:53 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 1:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 03.aug.2024 om 18:35 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>  >>>> ∞ instructions of DDD correctly emulated by HHH[∞] never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach their own "return" instruction final state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you are saying that the infinite one does?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dreaming again of HHH that does not abort? Dreams are no 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> substitute for facts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The HHH that aborts and halts, halts. A tautology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the right answer to the wrong question.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am asking whether or not DDD emulated by HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>> reaches its "return" instruction.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the "DDD emulated by HHH" is the program DDD above,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I say DDD emulated by HHH I mean at any level of
>>>>>>>>>> emulation and not and direct execution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you mean anything other than what the words mean you wihout
>>>>>>>>> a definition in the beginning of the same message then it is
>>>>>>>>> not reasonable to expect anyone to understand what you mean.
>>>>>>>>> Instead people may think that you mean what you say or that
>>>>>>>>> you don't know what you are saying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you don't understand what the word "emulate" means look it up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDD (above) cannot possibly reach its own "return" instruction halt
>>>>>>>> state when its machine code is correctly emulated by HHH.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only because an HHH that does so never returns to anybody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you really not understand that recursive emulation <is>
>>>>>> isomorphic to infinite recursion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not when the emulation is conditional.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Infinite_Recursion() meets the exact same condition that DDD
>>>> emulated by HHH makes and you know this. Since you are so
>>>> persistently trying to get away contradicting the semantics
>>>> of the x86 language the time is coming where there is zero
>>>> doubt that this is an honest mistake.
>>>>
>>>> Ben does correctly understand that the first half of the Sipser
>>>> approved criteria is met. Even Mike finally admitted this.
>>>
>>> I don't recall doing that.  Please provide a reference for this.
>>>
>>
>> On 8/2/2024 8:19 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>  > It's easy enough to say "PO has his own criterion for
>>  > halting, which is materially different from the HP condition,
>>  > and so we all agree PO is correct by his own criterion...
>>
>>> (Of course, everything depends on what you take Sipser's quote to be 
>>> saying.  I choose to interpret it as I'm pretty confident that Sipser 
>>> intended, under which the first half is mpst certainly NOT met!)
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>
>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>
>> void DDD()
>> {
>>    HHH(DDD);
>>    return;
>> }
>>
>> It is certainly the case that DDD correctly simulated by any
>> HHH cannot possibly stop running unless aborted.
>>
>> I don't see how any expert in the C language can deny that
>> with a straight face. Four have affirmed it. Two of these
>> four have masters degrees in computer science.
>>
> 
> The problem is that this only works with the correct definition of 
> "Correctly Simulated" but not YOUR definition of Correctly Simulated.
> 

I say correctly emulated according to the semantics of the x86
language yet no one besides me understand that.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer