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From: olcott <abc@def.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: behavior and description --- Rebuttals have been pure bluster V3
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 22:10:30 -0500
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On 8/6/2024 10:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/6/24 10:49 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 8/6/2024 9:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 8/6/24 9:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2024 8:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 8/6/24 1:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/6/2024 12:02 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Tue, 06 Aug 2024 09:43:30 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> Understanding that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot 
>>>>>>>> possibly reach
>>>>>>>> its own "return" instruction is a mandatory prerequisite to further
>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is nothing to discuss after agreeing with your conclusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everyone remains convinced that HHH must report on the behavior 
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> computation that itself is contained within and not the behavior 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> its finite string input specifies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The construction is not recursive if the description does not 
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>> the surrounding computation. And that behaviour cannot depend on the
>>>>>>> decider, as they should all give the same answer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is far too vague.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by HHH according to the semantics
>>>>>> of the x86 programming language specifies a single exact
>>>>>> sequence of state changes. None of these state changes
>>>>>> ends up at the x86 machine language address of the "ret"
>>>>>> instruction of DDD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which would be meaningful if HHH actual did a correct emulation of the 
>>>>
>>>> HHH does emulate the exact sequence that the machine code
>>>> of DDD specifies. This has been conclusively proven by
>>>> the execution traces that the two instances of HHH provide.
>>>
>>> Nope, because it didn't emulate the call instruction properly.
>>>
>>
>> It is proved that it does emulate the call instruction
>> properly by the correct execution trace of the second
>> DDD derived by the second HHH.
> 
> Nope, just proves you don't know what you are talking about.
> 

Because your rebuttals have always been pure bluster
you have only used double-talk and misdirection to dodge
pointing out any mistake in the following:

_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

_main()
[00002192] 55         push ebp
[00002193] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a] e833f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000219f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2] 50         push eax
[000021a3] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
[000021ad] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b2] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b3] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0034) [000021b3]

  machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
  address   address   data      code       language
  ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
[00002192][00103820][00000000] 55         push ebp
[00002193][00103820][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195][0010381c][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a][00103818][0000219f] e833f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
New slave_stack at:1038c4

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc
[00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
New slave_stack at:14e2ec
[00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

[0000219f][00103820][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2][0010381c][00000000] 50         push eax
[000021a3][00103818][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8][00103818][00000743] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
Input_Halts = 0
[000021ad][00103820][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0][00103820][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b2][00103824][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b3][00103828][00000000] c3         ret
Number of Instructions Executed(10069) == 150 Pages

*I had no idea that Mike was doing this same thing*

The former editor in chief of CASM did acknowledge
this to me. He said that was why he couldn't understand
what I was saying after many email exchanges.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer