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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who knows that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own return instruction final state? BUT ONLY that DDD
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 10:17:52 +0300
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On 2024-08-05 13:45:19 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/5/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-08-04 12:35:04 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 8/4/2024 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 8/3/24 11:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/3/2024 9:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/3/24 7:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/3/2024 5:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/3/24 6:15 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/3/2024 5:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The problem is that every one of those emulation is of a *DIFFERENT* 
>>>>>>>>>> input, so they don't prove anything together except that each one 
>>>>>>>>>> didn't go far enough.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> When each HHH correctly emulates 0 to infinity steps of
>>>>>>>>> its corresponding DDD and none of them reach the "return"
>>>>>>>>> halt state of DDD then even the one that emulated infinite
>>>>>>>>> steps of DDD did not emulate enough steps?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Just says lying YOU.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You got any source for that other than yourself?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is self-evident and you know it. I do have four
>>>>>>> people (two with masters in CS) that attest to that.
>>>>>>> *It is as simple as I can possibly make it*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe to your mind filled with false facts, but it isn't true.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wonder how you think that you are not swearing your
>>>>>>> allegiance to that father of lies?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Because, I know I speak the truth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why do you not think you are lying?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyone that truly understands infinite recursion knows
>>>>>>> that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach
>>>>>>> its own "return" final state.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right, but for every other HHH, which the ones that answer are, it 
>>>>>> isn't a fact.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Surpisingly (to me) Jeff Barnett set the record straight
>>>>>>> on exactly what halting means.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, there is one, and only one definition, it is a machine that reaches 
>>>>>> its final state.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Note, *a machine*, not a (partial) emulation of the machine
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You already know that a complete emulation of a non-ending
>>>>> sequence is impossible and you already acknowledged that
>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH that never aborts is non-ending.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> WHy do you say it is impossible, it just takes forever,
>>> 
>>> A complete emulation is after all of the instructions have been
>>> emulated. That never happens with any infinite execution.
>> 
>> No, that is not what the words mean. A complete emulation is one that is
>> continued as long as it can be continued. THe emulation is completed when
>> all of its instructions are executed. A complete emulaton  that can be
>> continues forever is complete but never completed.
> 
> That is incorrect. A completed task is a task where
> there are no more steps to be accomplished.

That you agree does not mean that I was wrong (though it certainly
means that I should check one more time, and I did, and found some
typos but no substantial error).

-- 
Mikko