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From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Creationism, Intelligent Design and Vendanta
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2024 08:52:54 -0500
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On 8/8/2024 6:39 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
> On 08/08/2024 12:20, RonO wrote:
>> On 8/8/2024 5:20 AM, Ernest Major wrote:
>>> On 08/08/2024 10:09, Burkhard wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 16:24:30 +0000, Kestrel Clayton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 06-Aug-24 09:46, RonO wrote:
>>>>>> I found an article on creationism, intelligent design and 
>>>>>> Vendanta. Even
>>>>>> though Kalkidas came out as a normal Biblical creationists there have
>>>>>> been Hindu sympathetic to Scientific Creationism and the ID 
>>>>>> creationist
>>>>>> scam on TO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4802803/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The author thinks that science is a search for truth.  I have never
>>>>>> considered science to be a search for truth.  It is just the best 
>>>>>> means
>>>>>> we have of developing a working understanding of nature.  This
>>>>>> understanding may not be the "truth" but it could be close, and 
>>>>>> allows
>>>>>> us to improve our understanding of nature and expand a functional
>>>>>> understanding of the reality that we exist in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not recall Kalk ever stating how intelligent design supported 
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> hindu beliefs, and vice versa, but he did quote the Vedas from 
>>>>>> time to
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A section of the paper compares Vendata to the ID creationist scam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh. I missed Kalkidas coming out as a fundamentalist Christian
>>>>> creationist. Did he have a conversion experience, or was he a 
>>>>> Christian
>>>>> all along and lying about it?
>>>>
>>>> neither, as far as I can tell. Though of course conversions, while
>>>> comparatively rare, do happen. But as far as I'm aware, he always was
>>>> and  still is a follower of Vaishnavism.
>>>>
>>>> He only ever objected to certain labels (with some good reasons I'd 
>>>> say)
>>>> so
>>>> the use of the exonym Hinduism
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Either way, I'm not all that surprised. For a lot of folks, denialism
>>>>> isn't about what is, but rather what ISN'T: Moon landing denialists 
>>>>> will
>>>>> gladly accommodate flat-Earthers, orbit-onlyists,
>>>>> fake-landings-real-pictures, fake-pictures-real-landings, and even
>>>>> "secret nazi base on the far side of the Moon" crackpots, as long as
>>>>> they all agree that the official account is somehow bogus.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's possibly closer the issue, as you, me and pretty much all
>>>> other contributors to TO on the science side are dead, we just
>>>> did not get the memo yet - the bioengineered Covid vaccine killed
>>>> us all, as planned by the oligarchs, for reasons unknown. Or so
>>>> Kalkidas
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I recall, as few months back he said that he was a Christian, or 
>>> at least something that was readily interpreted as that.
>>>
>>
>> When the Top Six came out in Nov. 2017 Kalk tried to go with Glenn and 
>> run from what the ID perps had just told them.  Bill just quit the ID 
>> scam and claimed that he had never supported the ID scam (everyone 
>> knows that Bill has been an IDiot from when he first started to post 
>> here). Bill likely meant that he had never supported what the ID scam 
>> had always been.  Pagano claimed that the Top Six were bogus, and were 
>> not the best evidence for the ID creationist scam.  He tried to put up 
>> Dembski's junk instead, but Dembski had retired from the ID scam as an 
>> abject failure and none of his junk had made it into what the other ID 
>> perps considered to be the best evidence for ID.  Pagano quit posting. 
>> Nyikos was MIA and after his return to TO he was clueless for years 
>> about what the Top Six had done to the ID scam.  When Nyikos finally 
>> addressed the Top Six it destroyed his space alien fantasy.  Nyikos 
>> started going on about god like space aliens from another universe 
>> could account for the Top Six.  It turned out that Nyikos had always 
>> been supporting the ID scam to support his religious beliefs.  Dean 
>> kept claiming that he did not remember not being able to deal with 
>> them every time he came back to post to TO.  MarkE was likely never an 
>> IDiot, but he could not give up on the god-of-the-gaps denial and 
>> started putting the Top Six up one at a time, but he found that he 
>> could not deal with them one at a time either when he spent a lot of 
>> time defining what was around the origin of life gap in order to claim 
>> that the gap would never be filled.  It turned out that the god that 
>> filled that gap was not the Biblical god, and MarkE quit putting up 
>> the lame Top Six gap denials. After a few months of running from the 
>> Top Six and just trying to post the second rate junk that the ID perps 
>> were still putting out Kalk claimed to quit supporting the ID scam.  
>> He claimed that the ID scam junk was no longer worth thinking about.  
>> Around that same time he admitted that he was not Hindu, and claimed 
>> that he had never claimed to be Hindu.  That was in 2018, and I recall 
>> having to give a link to that post for someone that had missed the 
>> event, but I didn't save the link anywhere, or I'd put it up again.
>>
>> Ron Okimoto
>>
> 
> Denying that he's a Hindu is not the same as stating that he's a 
> Christian, and is not inconsistent with Burkhard's characterisation of 
> his position.
> 

When he claimed that the ID scam was no longer of interest to him, Kalk 
claimed that he was more interested in other aspects of his religious 
beliefs. It turned out that he was just another biblical creationist, 
but could be an old earth creationist if that also wasn't a put on. Kalk 
has added to his initial admission through the years.  You can likely 
ask him if he ever posts again.  My guess is that creationism lost out 
and he decided to transfer his efforts to the resurrection and salvation 
and such.  Most Christians that are anti-evolution IDiotic types are 
that way because they think that the fact of evolution, age of the earth 
and such mean that the Bible can be wrong, and they do not want the 
Bible to be wrong about the central Christian tenets.  The ICR's and 
AIG's arguments against old earth creationism have always been that the 
Bible needs to be inerrant, or there is no reason to believe everything 
else.  Even though Bill gave up on IDiocy, he can't give up on the 
denial in order to keep believing what he does, so he decided to go with 
his "reality doesn't exist" claims because this reality isn't consistent 
with any reasonable literal Biblical interpretation.  The god that fills 
the Top Six gaps that are the best evidence for IDiocy is not their 
Biblical god.

The West Virginia creationist rubes that just passed their teach ID Act 
do not even know what would be taught.  The ID perps have never put up a 
lesson plan, and #1 of the Top Six is the Big Bang, and it is a topic 
(along with biological evolution) that the IDiotic type creationists 
have already removed from the public school Science standards in Kansas, 
and they have tried to do it in states like Texas and Oklahoma.  IDiotic 
type creationists do not want to teach the Top Six in an honest and 
straightforward manner because the god the fills those six gaps is not 
their Biblical god.  The West Virginia rubes will not want to teach the 
best evidence for the ID scam.  Kalk could not deal with the Top Six due 
to his Biblical beliefs, quit the ID scam, and came out as what he had 
always been.  Kalk had likely only pretended to be Hindu in order to 
lend some credence to his creationist support for the ID scam.

Ron Okimoto