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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: sci.logic Subject: Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 11:46:49 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 109 Message-ID: <v94l1p$ldq7$1@dont-email.me> References: <v86olp$5km4$1@dont-email.me> <v8a4vf$uhll$1@dont-email.me> <v8aqh7$11ivs$1@dont-email.me> <v8cr4g$1gk19$1@dont-email.me> <v8dinp$1kii7$1@dont-email.me> <v8hv72$2mmsq$1@dont-email.me> <v8iisj$2qetj$1@dont-email.me> <v8kuhb$3d5q8$1@dont-email.me> <v8lc7p$3f6vr$2@dont-email.me> <v8naa8$3uo7s$1@dont-email.me> <v8nqo7$1n09$1@dont-email.me> <v8sm9o$1gk42$1@dont-email.me> <v8t2fl$1ilg6$2@dont-email.me> <v8v97m$2cofk$1@dont-email.me> <v8vusp$32fso$16@dont-email.me> <v91p95$3ppav$1@dont-email.me> <v92q4f$37e9$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2024 10:46:49 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="95f82fff232bc6bc7a9468aae2b1cef6"; logging-data="702279"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX185n5HF8iZidjeDvp5OIdvv" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:3ohhV3fVL0U5EQ2ld9aXnjEwsUg= On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said: > On 8/8/2024 1:40 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-08-07 14:04:09 +0000, olcott said: >> >>> On 8/7/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-08-06 11:47:01 +0000, olcott said: >>>> >>>>> On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The truth about every expression of language that can be known >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in language is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a lack of connection simply means untrue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that really mean something? If the significance of the lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection is restricted to sentences where the connection exists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it seems that you are talking about nothing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of >>>>>>>>>>>>> (~Married + Adult + Male). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is not a good idea to lie about other people. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation >>>>>>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Try and show the details of how I am incorrect. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and unjustified, >>>>>>>>>> which alone is wrong. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The bottom line here is that every objection that he could >>>>>>>>> have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to >>>>>>>>> the definition of {analytic truth} >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Original definition* of {Analytic truth} >>>>>>>>> Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is >>>>>>>>> true on the basis of its meaning... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor >>>>>>>> is not married" comes from the meaning of the words? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If he said that then he would be saying that he has no >>>>>>> objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is >>>>>>> famous for having an objection to this. >>>>>> >>>>>> What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to >>>>>> the analytinc/synthetic distinction? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything >>>>> that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong. >>>> >>>> In that case you don't know how sensitive his conclusion is to >>>> a minor change in argument. >>>> >>> >>> All that I care about is unambiguously defining the term >>> {true on the basis of meaning} so that I can show Tarski and >>> Gödel are wrong. >> >> That does not justify your lies about Quine. >> > > It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding > how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works. What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself, would be relevant to Quine's topic? > I don't really give a rat's ass what he said all that matters > to me is that I have defined expressions of language that are > {true on the basis of their meaning expressed in language} > so that I have analytic(Olcott) to make my other points. That does not justify lying. -- Mikko