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Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: sci.logic
Subject: Re: True on the basis of meaning (and not any other kind)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2024 11:46:49 +0300
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On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/8/2024 1:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-08-07 14:04:09 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 8/7/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-08-06 11:47:01 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/6/2024 3:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-08-04 12:04:23 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/4/2024 2:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-03 13:44:25 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 8/3/2024 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-02 12:19:31 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/2/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-31 14:46:17 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/31/2024 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-30 13:40:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/30/2024 2:33 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-29 00:44:41 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The truth about every expression of language that can be known
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be true on the basis of its meaning expressed in language is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a lack of connection simply means untrue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that really mean something? If the significance of the lack of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection is restricted to sentences where the connection exists
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it seems that you are talking about nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to redefine the analytic side of the analytic/synthetic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction because Quine convinced most everyone that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction does not exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You cannot redefine side wihout redefining the other side and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction itself. Is your redefinition equivalent to the one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at https://plato.stanford.edu/Entries/analytic-synthetic/ or did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you find out that that distincition is not the one that exists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quine got totally confused by synonymity. He never understood
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the term {Bachelor} was defined in terms of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (~Married + Adult + Male).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not a good idea to lie about other people.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> When reqding Quine, you should ask yourself why your presentation
>>>>>>>>>>>> is much less convincing than Quine's.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Try and show the details of how I am incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> What you said (quoted above) about Quine is insulting and unjustified,
>>>>>>>>>> which alone is wrong.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The bottom line here is that every objection that he could
>>>>>>>>> have possibly made is addressed by this augmentation to
>>>>>>>>> the definition of {analytic truth}
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *Original definition* of {Analytic truth}
>>>>>>>>> Every expression of (formal or natural language) that is
>>>>>>>>> true on the basis of its meaning...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So what is wrong with Quines opinion that the truth of "A bachelor
>>>>>>>> is not married" comes from the meaning of the words?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If he said that then he would be saying that he has no
>>>>>>> objection to the {Analytic/Synthetic} distinction. He is
>>>>>>> famous for having an objection to this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What makes you thing he has no objection not involving batchelors to
>>>>>> the analytinc/synthetic distinction?
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I only skimmed his paper. I don't have to even look at anything
>>>>> that said besides his conclusion to know that it is wrong.
>>>> 
>>>> In that case you don't know how sensitive his conclusion is to
>>>> a minor change in argument.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> All that I care about is unambiguously defining the term
>>> {true on the basis of meaning} so that I can show Tarski and
>>> Gödel are wrong.
>> 
>> That does not justify your lies about Quine.
>> 
> 
> It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding
> how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works.

What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself,
would be relevant to Quine's topic?

> I don't really give a rat's ass what he said all that matters
> to me is that I have defined expressions of language that are
> {true on the basis of their meaning expressed in language}
> so that I have analytic(Olcott) to make my other points.

That does not justify lying.

-- 
Mikko