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Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: "Time" vs "physical time" Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 21:49:11 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 131 Message-ID: <v98g6k$srl7$1@dont-email.me> References: <17e914f508c7a9cf$96455$546728$c2565adb@news.newsdemon.com> <dwvnP-SoKZPwHpz6HgPhxwtG7e4@jntp> <v92ugo$4cam$1@dont-email.me> <XhF-ilyxW2WRkQK5uYxoOVgm1rU@jntp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2024 21:48:37 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="62fcfa170651915abc902248603ec09b"; logging-data="945831"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1++hPcVEv6JHTQLeednvMhQ" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:L/DJQDkkavo2EU5EoA0h25ZrHQA= In-Reply-To: <XhF-ilyxW2WRkQK5uYxoOVgm1rU@jntp> Content-Language: en-GB Bytes: 5549 Den 08.08.2024 19:55, skrev Richard Hachel: > Le 08/08/2024 à 19:16, "Paul.B.Andersen" a écrit : >>> R.H. >> >> You claim that clocks in Norway and France are not synchronous >> even if both show the time UTC + 2h because of the universal >> anisochrony. >> >> The question is about your anisochrony, so please read this and >> answer the questions. Richard, this is the main point! If the clocks at the Oslo Airport and Paris Airport are not synchronous, what are the consequences? >> >> I leave Oslo Airport (Gardemoen Airport) when the watch on the airport >> shows 12.00.00 >> I arrive at Paris Airport (Charles De Gaulle Airport) when the watch >> on the airport shows 13.30.32. >> >> The difference is T = 1h 30m 32s >> Is this a real time, or is it impossible to know the real time >> because of the universal anisochrony? Is T = 1h 30m 32s the real duration of the journey? Yes or no please. >> >> The distance in the ground frame between the airports is L = 1358.03 km. >> Is the real speed of the plane in the ground frame v = L/T = 900 km/h, >> or is it impossible to know the real speed of the plane because >> of the universal anisochrony? Is the real speed of the plane in the ground frame 900 km/s? >> >> The question is simple: >> Is it possible to calculate the real duration of the journey >> by comparing the reading of the clock in Oslo at the departure >> and the reading of the clock in Paris at arrival? >> >> Yes or no, please. >> >> I can understand why you find it very hard to answer >> questions when they are taken from practical scenarios >> in the real world, and not from your fantasy world. >> >> Paul > > No, it is not difficult to answer your question, it is simply not very > practical. It is indeed a very practical questions from the real world. If it according to your theory is impossible to calculate the speed of a plane relative to the ground, measured with one clock in Oslo and One clock in Paris, both clocks showing UTC+2h, how would you measure the speed of anything at any speed? > Discussing relativistic times with planes whose speeds are very > Newtonian is quite difficult. We are not discussing "Newtonian speed" or "relativistic speeds", whatever they are supposed to mean. we are discussing if it is possible to measure speed (dx/dt) with two synchronised clocks. So please, answer the questions above. ------------------------- > Can you reformulate your question using a vast underground tunnel > between Paris and Oslo, in which we could launch particles at high speed > from Paris to Oslo and vice versa? As always you will never answer question from the real world, but insist on making impossible scenarios. (It is the tunnel that is impossible. The middle of the tunnel would be 34.9 km below the surface, which is in the magma) > We assume that the length of the tunnel would be 1320 kms. OK, let's assume that the length of the tunnel is exactly 1320 km. We are using two clocks showing UTC+2h. But they have to be more precisely synchronised than the clocks on the airports which can not be expected to be synchronous to much better than within a second. So we will us two atomic clocks which are synchronised by GPS to show UTC+2h to within 1 ns. The particle we will use is a photon. A photon is sent from Oslo at the time 12.00.000000000 ± 1ns and is detected in Paris at the time 12.00.004403046 ± 1ns The measured speed of the photon is 299792461 ± 68 m/s A photon is sent from Paris at the time 13.00.000000000 ± 1ns and is detected in Oslo at the time 13.00.004403046 ± 1ns The measured speed of the photon is 299792461 ± 68 m/s Any problem with this? > L= 13.2.10^5m > c=3.10^8m/s > (1/c)=3.333ns/m > There exists, between Paris and Oslo (the notion of universal present > time being finally understood as ridiculous and abstract in any inertial > frame of reference) a reciprocal delay of information, of real present > of universe, of ΔTo=4.44ms during a synchronization that nevertheless > appears perfectly established. Is this an incredible convoluted attempt to say that the transit time for light to go through the tunnel from Oslo to Paris or vice versa is ≈ 4.44 ms ? What is ridiculous about this simple fact? -- Paul https://paulba.no/