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From: Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Pearls Before Swine: Rat The Luddite
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 17:52:27 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 8/15/2024 10:06 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> On 8/14/2024 9:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 8/14/2024 9:44 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> On 8/14/2024 12:12 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Aug 2024 22:15:25 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 18:35:55 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only solution is to completely eliminate single-use
>>>>>>> plastics.    I'd even go so far as to include milk and
>>>>>>> juice jugs in that ban (glass is far more recyclable
>>>>>>> and aside shipping weight, similar in cost).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paper milk cartons can eliminate the plastic lid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does "single use" mean? I understand in the context of fast food
>>>>>> cups but how about less common items like those 4 liter milk jugs I
>>>>
>>>> As noted below, I explicitly included 4liter/1gallon milk jugs.
>>>>
>>>>>> get my milk in (and generally put out each week in the recycling bin)
>>>>>> or similar such items - for instance my cheddar comes wrapped in
>>>>>> plastic and once the cheese is eaten, that plastic wrapper isn't
>>>>>> getting used again <grin>
>>>
>>> Congratulations. Your jugs join the 9% of plastic that gets recycled
>>> in America.
>>>
>>> 91% goes to the landfill or incinerator.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a /reason/ we replaced glass with plastic, at least in some
>>>>> cases.
>>>>
>>>> The primary reason is shipping weight.
>>>
>>> I'd challenge that: The primary reason is money.
>>>
>>> Yes, lower shipping weight saves money, but I expect
>>> much larger is the savings from not having to maintain
>>> a recycling chain to recover, wash, and reuse bottles
>>> strong enough to sustain multiple uses (you may remember
>>> what old school Coke bottles were like).
>>>
>>> I've seen one gallon glass milk jugs, but they're heavy
>>> enough to need included handles. More often I've seen
>>> milk delivery using pint bottles - multiple if the family
>>> requests it.
>>>
>>>>> Interestingly, while, until they were banned, one-time-use plastic
>>>>> shopping bags were taxed (as were and still are papter one-time-use
>>>>> paper bags), smaller bags used to contain fruits and veggies were
>>>>> exempt, despite clearly being one-time-use.
>>>>
>>>> The Trader Joes produce bags are biodegradable.
>>>
>>> Single use plastic shopping bags are an interesting case of
>>> tradeoffs. Banning them absolutely cuts down on unsightly
>>> trash blowing around, but I've read that the 'resusable' bags
>>> sold to replace them are so much heavier that they need to
>>> be used hundreds of times before they pay off the extra
>>> plastic used.
>>>
>> I use cloth bags....
> 
> What cloth? Is it a natural fiber? Or is it polyester/dacron, etc?
> 
> If its a plastic fiber, you've done little or nothing to reduce
> plastic waste. How many single-use bags are required to equal the
> weight of your reusable?
> 
Less than the number of years I've been using them.

-- 
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky 
dirty old man.