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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: yes!
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 14:57:38 +1000
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On 18/08/2024 2:18 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:54:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Aug 2024 07:00:48 -0700) it happened john larkin
>> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <dta1cj1f3pudq93ard2o2ve4dadero917e@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 06:26:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 16 Aug 2024 15:07:52 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>>> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <06jvbjp36khao0m5ot65a1o1krricoasre@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>>>> It's just code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not any more it isn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those giant computer networks don't run code?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Your lack of understanding is a handicap.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your lack of imagination ditto.
>>>>
>>>> Well, there is a bit of your lack of understanding
>>>
>>> So you understand how brains work?
>>>
>>> Where are images stored, and how can one recognize and name one of
>>> maybe a million storted images in a fraction of a second?
>>>
>>>> You know about analog computing
>>>> So big neural networks are basically imitations of the analog brain.
>>>> But you can do a lot in hardware such as storing the 'weights' and vector multiplication. communication.
>>>> My suggestion is for you, just as a free time project, code some neural net.
>>>> Or at least look up how it works:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network
>>>>
>>>> No need for digital at all.
>>>> https://research.ibm.com/projects/analog-ai
>>>>
>>>> OTOH my opinion is that our brain stores memory in RNA and DNA, strong hint is that
>>>> newborn species of many types know how the move, find food, interpret what they see and feel, etc.
>>>> Recent research found that in those neurons some data is stored in such a basic form as RNA,
>>>>
>>>> Nature .. we still invent thing nature alread had millions of years ago.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've been in several situations where people wanted to use NN's. It
>>> never actually worked. It doesn't make sense.
>>
>> Long ago, many years ago, I found an article in a German magazine by a prof
>> who had some model cars controlled by a simpe 2 or was it 3? neuron net, coded.
>> There was a choice of how to connect those,
>> One way the cars were endlessly circling each other, forming a 'swarm' if you want
>> and the other way those were constantly avoiding each other.
>> Just a few neurons in software.
>> I decided to code that, do his experiment
>> Behavior control, so simple.
>> Almost human.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network
>>
>> Same as to 'conciousnes'
>> If you have a sunscreen with a light sensor you can make a system (analog or digital) that closes it as the sun bemones too intense.
>> Now add a voce that says:"
>> It is to hot here, I am closing
>> or
>> it is so dark here, I am opening
>> So much for Descartes 'I think so I am'
>> remove the speech part and is it then uncounciuos?
>> Doctor will test for an eye or knee reflex...
>> You can sedate a person an cut him, no reaction.. Unconcious?
>>
>> There is some Linux open source software so you can build your own neural net, tried it long ago.
>> https://slashdot.org/software/neural-network/linux/
>> even for your Raspberry...
>>
>> Neural nets can learn, the 'learning' is in the value of the weights between the neurons.
>> Without training it to set the weights it will not do what you want it to do.
>> Those 'weights' can be  analog or digital. Or quantum states?
>>
>> I think much of Elon's cars use neural nets to navigate traffic, it works!
>> Now end-to-end is being tested:
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-teslas-end-to-end-neural-network-diana-wolf-torres-0yf4c
>>
>> There is so much more than I can type here.
>> Just a while before we have an AI US president?
>> ;-)
> 
> NNs remind me of the fuzzy logic fad. A magical way to avoid thinking
> about hard stuff like control theory.

Of course they do. You don't understand either concept, so you use them 
as terms of abuse.

> Good way to kill people on the streets.

Not as good as the woefully ill-drafted second amendment to the US 
constitution.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney