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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: sci.logic
Subject: Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:22:09 +0300
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On 2024-08-16 21:35:21 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/16/2024 4:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 8/16/24 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 8/16/2024 2:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 8/16/24 2:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/16/2024 11:32 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/16/24 7:02 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/15/2024 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-13 12:43:16 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 8/13/2024 6:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-12 13:44:33 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/12/2024 1:11 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-10 10:52:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/10/2024 3:13 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-09 15:29:18 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2024 10:19 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2024 3:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-08 16:01:19 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does seem that he is all hung up on not understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how the synonymity of bachelor and unmarried works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What in the synonymity, other than the synonymity itself,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be relevant to Quine's topic?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He mentions it 98 times in his paper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I haven't looked at it in years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really give a rat's ass what he said all that matters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me is that I have defined expressions of language that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {true on the basis of their meaning expressed in language}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that I have analytic(Olcott) to make my other points.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That does not justify lying.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never lie. Sometimes I make mistakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It looks like you only want to dodge the actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic with any distraction that you can find.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Expressions of language that are {true on the basis of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their meaning expressed in this same language} defines
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> analytic(Olcott) that overcomes any objections that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can possibly have about the analytic/synthetic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Expressions of language that are {true on the basis of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their meaning expressed in this same language} defines
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> analytic(Olcott) that overcomes any objections that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone can possibly have about the analytic/synthetic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression is simply untrue because it lacks a truthmaker.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it doesn't. An algrithm or at least a proof of existence of an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> algrithm makes something computable. You  can't compute if you con't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how. The truth makeker of computability is an algorithm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is either a sequence of truth preserving operations from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the set of expressions stipulated to be true (AKA the verbal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> model of the actual world) to x or x is simply untrue. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how the Liar Paradox is best refuted.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nice to see that you con't disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> When the idea that I presented is fully understood
>>>>>>>>>>> it abolishes the whole notion of undecidability.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If you can't prove atl least that you have an interesting idea
>>>>>>>>>> nobody is going to stody it enough to understood.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident proposition
>>>>>>>>> is a proposition that is known to be true by understanding its meaning
>>>>>>>>> without proof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Self-evident propositions are uninteresting.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *This abolishes the notion of undecidability*
>>>>>>> As with all math and logic we have expressions of language
>>>>>>> that are true on the basis of their meaning expressed
>>>>>>> in this same language. Unless expression x has a connection
>>>>>>> (through a sequence of true preserving operations) in system
>>>>>>> F to its semantic meanings expressed in language L of F
>>>>>>> x is simply untrue in F.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But you clearly don't understand the meaning of "undecidability"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not at all. I am doing the same sort thing that ZFC
>>>>> did to conquer Russell's Paradox.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to do that, you need to start at the basics are totally 
>>>> reformulate logic.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> ZFC didn't need to do that. All they had to do is
>>> redefine the notion of a set so that it was no longer
>>> incoherent.
>>> 
>> 
>> I guess you haven't read the papers of Zermelo and Fraenkel. They 
>> created a new definition of what a set was, and then showed what that 
>> implies, since by changing the definitions, all the old work of set 
>> theory has to be thrown out, and then we see what can be established.
>> 
> 
> None of this is changing any more rules. All
> of these are the effects of the change of the
> definition of a set.

Zermelo didn't change the rules of logic. He did change the rules
of set theory and demostrated that the new roules permitted much
of what was reasonable to expect.

-- 
Mikko