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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: sci.logic
Subject: Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:37:07 +0300
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On 2024-08-17 15:47:51 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/17/2024 10:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 8/17/24 11:12 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 8/17/2024 9:53 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 8/17/24 10:45 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/17/2024 9:40 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/17/24 12:05 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 6:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 6:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 5:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 5:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 4:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 2:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 2:11 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/2024 11:32 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/24 7:02 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This abolishes the notion of undecidability*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As with all math and logic we have expressions of language
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are true on the basis of their meaning expressed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this same language. Unless expression x has a connection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (through a sequence of true preserving operations) in system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> F to its semantic meanings expressed in language L of F
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x is simply untrue in F.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But you clearly don't understand the meaning of "undecidability"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not at all. I am doing the same sort thing that ZFC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did to conquer Russell's Paradox.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to do that, you need to start at the basics are totally 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformulate logic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ZFC didn't need to do that. All they had to do is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> redefine the notion of a set so that it was no longer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incoherent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you haven't read the papers of Zermelo and Fraenkel. They 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a new definition of what a set was, and then showed what that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implies, since by changing the definitions, all the old work of set 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory has to be thrown out, and then we see what can be established.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> None of this is changing any more rules. All
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of these are the effects of the change of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of a set.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they defined not only what WAS a set, but what you could do as 
>>>>>>>>>>>> basic operations ON a set.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Axiom of extensibility: the definition of sets being equal, that ZFC is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> built on first-order logic.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Axion of regularity/Foundation: This is the rule that a set can not be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> a member of itself, and that we can count the members of a set.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> This one is the key that conquered Russell's Paradox.
>>>>>>>>>>> If anything else changed it changed on the basis of this change
>>>>>>>>>>> or was not required to defeat RP.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> but they couldn't just "add" it to set theory, they needed to define 
>>>>>>>>>> the full set.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think you problem is you just don't understand how formal logic works.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think at a higher level of abstraction.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> No, you don't, unless you mean by that not bothering to make sure the 
>>>>>>>> details work.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can't do fundamental logic in the abstract.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That is just called fluff and bluster.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> All that they did is just like I said they redefined
>>>>>>>>> what a set is. You provided a whole bunch of details of
>>>>>>>>> how they redefined a set as a rebuttal to my statement
>>>>>>>>> saying that all they did is redefine a set.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Showing the sort of thing YOU need to do to redefine logic
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I said that ZFC redefined the notion of a set to get rid of RP.
>>>>>>> You show the steps of how ZFC redefined a set as your rebuttal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, you said that "ALL THEY DID" was that, and that is just a LIE.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They developed a full formal system.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> They did nothing besides change the definition of
>>>>> a set and the result of this was a new formal system.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I guess you consider all the papers they wrote describing the effects 
>>>> of their definitions "nothing"
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Not at all and you know this.
>>> One change had many effects yet was still one change.
>>> 
>> 
>> But would mean nothing without showing the affects of that change.
>> 
> 
> Yet again with your imprecise use of words.
> When any tiniest portion of the meaning of an expression
> has been defined this teeny tiny piece of the definition
> makes this expression not pure random gibberish.
> 
> Meaningless does not mean has less meaning, it is
> an idiom for having zero meaning.
> https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/meaningless

You are lying. According to that page the word "meaningless"
has two meanings. The other is 'having no real importance or value'.

-- 
Mikko