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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Subject: Re: [SR and synchronization] Cognitive Dissonances and Mental Blockage Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 15:22:34 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 66 Message-ID: <v9sp2a$2coe5$1@dont-email.me> References: <v9q6eu$1tlm9$1@dont-email.me> <liduroFtbroU2@mid.individual.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 14:22:34 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="28cfdee9bade4b27347d5cedfd8f79e2"; logging-data="2515397"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+YOI8vhp7TdGUpEoAsEdOo" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:5XSCBz8GVyNvFinwvEcPc4WcvHY= Bytes: 4032 On 2024-08-18 09:57:35 +0000, Thomas Heger said: > Am Samstag000017, 17.08.2024 um 14:52 schrieb Python: >> **An Interesting Case of Mental Blockage and Cognitive Dissonance:** >> >> *Einstein-Poincaré Synchronization Procedure and Dr. Lengrand* >> >> What’s fascinating about certain cranks is that just when you think >> you’ve seen all the absurdities they can come up with, they manage to >> produce something even worse. Their cognitive dissonance and ability to >> pull out bizarre notions from who knows where, on top of a perfectly >> well-defined technical procedure, is astonishing. We’ve seen this >> before with GPS, where Hachel invents all sorts of fantasies, like >> atomic clocks in the receivers or synchronization with a clock >> infinitely far away in a fourth spatial dimension... >> >> This is a report of exchanges on the synchronization procedure >> described by Einstein in his 1905 paper, discussions that took place 17 >> years ago and more recently on sci.physics.relativity and >> fr.sci.physique. >> >> https://groups.google.com/g/fr.sci.physique/c/KgqI9gqTkR8/m/oMc9X0XjCWMJ >> >> *Reminders on the Procedure:* >> >> Two identical clocks, A and B, are stationary relative to each other at >> a certain distance. Their identical functioning (within measurement >> accuracy) allows us to assume that they "tick at the same rate." >> NOTHING more is assumed, especially regarding the time they display; >> the purpose is PRECISELY to adjust one of these clocks by applying a >> correction after a calculation involving the values indicated on these >> clocks during specific events, events that occur AT THE LOCATION OF >> EACH CLOCK. >> >> Einstein’s procedure is not strictly a synchronization procedure but a >> method to VERIFY their synchronization. This is the main difference >> from Poincaré’s approach. However, it can be proven that Poincaré’s >> method leads to clocks synchronized in Einstein’s sense. You can also >> transform Einstein’s verification method into a synchronization >> procedure because it allows calculating the correction to apply to >> clock A. >> >> *Steps of Einstein's Method:* >> >> When clock A shows t_A, a light signal is emitted from A towards B. >> >> When this signal is received at B, clock B shows t_B, and a light >> signal is sent from B back towards A. >> >> When the signal is received at A, clock A shows t'_A. > > Relativity requires mutally symmetric methods. So if you synchronize > clock B with clock A, this must come to the same result, as if you > would synchronize clock A with clock B. The method needs not be symmetric. It is sufficient that the result is. Perhaps a symmetric method would be better in some cases. A possible symmetric method is to use a signal source that is equally far from both clocks. The result of Einstein's method is symmetric in the sense that if A is synchronized with B then B is synchornized with A. -- Mikko