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From: kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 14:21:38 -0000 (UTC)
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In comp.unix.programmer David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> On 16/08/2024 17:02, Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>> In comp.unix.programmer Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-08-15, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 19:48:36 -0000 (UTC), Kalevi Kolttonen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The last I checked, the O'Reilly Python book is just absolutely
>>>>> *MASSIVE*. The language has a huge number of features now ...
>>>>
>>>> No, it hasn’t. The core language reference spec is only a small fraction
>>>> of, say, the Java language spec.
>>>>
>>>> It’s just that you can do so many things with Python. And that is down to
>>>> the huge variety of off-the-shelf addon libraries that build on that core
>>>> language spec. It has to be a strong, very solidly founded core in order
>>>> to be such a versatile basis for these addons, and it is.
>>>
>>> That's idiotic; you're saying that the standard library packages of
>>> Python are not part of Python, and do not contribute to its size.
>> 
>> You seem to have a point. The core of C language is also small. I
>> guess they even said in the original K & R book that C is a small
>> language best described by a small book.
>> 
>> But in order to do anything with C, you need to know the standard
>> libraries. They have grown bigger and bigger during all these
>> years. One could also well argue that to program on UNIX, you also
>> need to know all the POSIX libraries.
>> 
> 
> Absolute nonsense.
> 
> In order to use a programming language for a given task, you need to 
> know the basics of the language and libraries appropriate for the task. 
> You most certainly do not need to know all about the language, or all 
> about all the libraries provided as standard for the language or the 
> host OS.

I would not label it as "absolute nonsense". In order to program on UNIX,
you need to be familiar with the facilities that are available. I
know of a very smart man who ended up as a professor of physics who
programmed on Amiga back in the 1980s. Even though his PhD thesis
was something like 100-150 pages of strange-looking formulas, he said
he had problems with C on the Amiga. For some reason, he was unable
to remember what functions where provided as standard libraries, so
he always ended up writing his own functions instead of using libraries.

To know Linux, you need Michal Kerrisk's book the Linux Programming
Interface. I have this book, but admittedly you are kind of right:
It is large and I do not know every single part of it, but I have
studied it a lot and I am familiar with the most important features.

br,
KK