Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Anyone that disagrees with this is not telling the truth --- V5
 --- Professor Sipser
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2024 20:23:41 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <va63uu$2fo9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <va104l$376ed$4@dont-email.me>
 <cd375f68f97a737988bab8c1332b7802509ff6ea@i2pn2.org>
 <va13po$376ed$7@dont-email.me>
 <d42e5d30ea5f1c067283cb04d8a7293e2117188e@i2pn2.org>
 <va24hl$3cvgv$1@dont-email.me>
 <431deaa157cdae1cae73a1b24268a61cf8ec2c1c@i2pn2.org>
 <va38qh$3ia79$1@dont-email.me>
 <7a1c569a699e79bfa146affbbae3eac7b91cd263@i2pn2.org>
 <va3f7o$3ipp3$1@dont-email.me>
 <729cc551062c13875686d266a5453a488058e81c@i2pn2.org>
 <va3kac$3nd5c$1@dont-email.me>
 <148bf4dd91f32379a6d81a621fb7ec3fc1e00db0@i2pn2.org>
 <va3lai$3nd5c$2@dont-email.me> <va46sd$3pr24$1@dont-email.me>
 <va4mle$3s0hu$1@dont-email.me>
 <5591ff08ed8f7b4bdf33813681e156b775efe0ec@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 03:23:42 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="62a25b741157347252c8096938b61d22";
	logging-data="81673"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX186A54SCBF3qtOYC5bgcEgb"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:96qeMjp5C6TYPhuRww//PvpMX6k=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <5591ff08ed8f7b4bdf33813681e156b775efe0ec@i2pn2.org>
Bytes: 4454

On 8/21/2024 7:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 8/21/24 8:30 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 8/21/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-08-21 03:01:38 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>> *We are only talking about one single point*
>>>> Professor Sipser must have understood that an HHH(DDD)
>>>> that does abort is supposed predict what would happen
>>>> if it never aborted.
>>>
>>> Professor Sipser understood that what is not a part of the text
>>> is not a part of the agreement. What H is required to predict
>>> is fully determined by the words "halt decider H". The previous
>>> word "simulating" refers to an implementation detail and does
>>> not affect the requirements.
>>>
>>
>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>
>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>
>> It is crucial to the requirements in that it specifies that
>> H is required to predict
>> (a) The behavior specified by the finite string D
> 
> Which must include *ALL* of the code of the PROGRAM D, which includes 
> ALL the code of everything it calls, which includes H, so with your 
> system, changing H gives a DIFFERENT input, which is not comparable in 
> behavior to this input.
> 
>> (b) As measured by the correct partial simulation of D by H
> 
> Nope, by H correctly predicting, with a partial simulation of D by H if 
> possible, if the COMPLETE simulaiton by a "hypothetical H" replacing H 
> but not changing the input, would never halt.
> 
>> (c) When H would never abort its simulation of F
> 
> Which, since that isn't the case, put you into the realm of fantasy.
> 
>> (d) This includes H simulating itself simulating D
> 
> Right, H must CORRECTLY predict the behavior of an UNABORTED emulation 
> of its input, and if, and only if, it can determine that such an 
> emulation would never halt, then it can abort its emulation.
> 
> Note, that is the emulation of this exact input, including D calling the 
> ORIGINAL H, not changing to the Hypothetical, since by the rules of the 
> field, the input is a fixed string, and fully defines the behavior of 
> the input.
> 

You are contradicting yourself.
Your ADD may prevent you from
concentrating well enough to see this.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer