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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!reader5.news.weretis.net!news.solani.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: yes! Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 06:27:27 GMT Message-ID: <va6log$1hs0d$1@solani.org> References: <va0v6r$bjd$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <ta18cjhuee9ck91fl5qoqmjlf0bkquq1lf@4ax.com> <va11c8$233r$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <lc38cj9muvd5tgdd0drskj8r7f6uh8v2a8@4ax.com> <va13ui$ns5$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <saa9cjhn8nnver5mqtuktotmkvhrjd7hb8@4ax.com> <va2cg6$1g5u$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <va2cqd$3ebl1$1@dont-email.me> <va2fbl$3el8t$1@dont-email.me> <3kg9cj1fp2jifl9vre6ad7tkd0cj4fp1ac@4ax.com> <va3tru$1gdju$1@solani.org> <6oubcj5r9fduockf0j1ind3r1lpe5p61pa@4ax.com> <va4vv2$1h1un$1@solani.org> <va53l8$1edn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 06:27:28 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: solani.org; logging-data="1634317"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@news.solani.org" User-Agent: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (Linux-5.15.32-v7l+) Cancel-Lock: sha1:q9JffXFt0qB+XCe7mszDog1tdjM= X-User-ID: eJwNysEBwCAIA8CVIEqAcURk/xHae58tKq9vGreNTY1IXt3W6a/c2TwYsjPaLQrneuM908iqSU8QsuJ/UgA+V4QVHg== X-Newsreader-location: NewsFleX-1.5.7.5 (c) 'LIGHTSPEED' off line news reader for the Linux platform NewsFleX homepage: http://www.panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/ and ftp download ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/linux/system/news/readers/ Bytes: 9354 Lines: 166 On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:12:23 -0400) it happened "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in <va53l8$1edn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>: >"Jan Panteltje" <alien@comet.invalid> wrote in message news:va4vv2$1h1un$1@solani.org... >> On a sunny day (Wed, 21 Aug 2024 07:43:55 -0700) it happened john larkin >> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <6oubcj5r9fduockf0j1ind3r1lpe5p61pa@4ax.com>: >> >>>On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 05:27:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On a sunny day (Tue, 20 Aug 2024 09:25:27 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <3kg9cj1fp2jifl9vre6ad7tkd0cj4fp1ac@4ax.com>: >>>> >>>>>On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 17:13:39 +0100, Martin Brown >>>>><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On 20/08/2024 16:30, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>> Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> "john larkin" <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> I preferred Popular Electronics myself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just as elsewhere at the time you might only have had access to Rossiyskaya Elektronika. >>>>>>>> The world was smaller then. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Back when I was 21 and trying to come up to speed in RF, I learned a lot >>>>>>> from RF Design and Wireless World. >>>>>> >>>>>>WW was good on content but circuit diagrams in it were somewhat badly >>>>>>typeset at times - just enough to make it tricky to get working. >>>>>> >>>>>>Elektor was the other European mag back then and it is still going. They >>>>>>had a summer special with loads of circuit ideas much like IU. Quirky >>>>>>resistors as rectangular boxes was one of their trademarks. >>>>> >>>>>Do kids these days have similar guides to designing real electronics? >>>>> >>>>>When I interview an engineer, recent grad or not, I give them my >>>>>2-resistor voltage divider test. Most start mumbling and can't do it. >>>>> >>>> >>>>Apart from 'Elektor', that was called 'Electuur' here in the Netherlands, >>>>we had 'Radio ELectronica' that last one was my faforite, >>>>Way before that we had 'Radio Blan': >>>> https://archive.org/details/radio-blan/Radio_Blan_01_juli_1960/ >>>>Used to read that and build those projects.. If I could get the parts... >>>>Componets from 'Amroh' >>>> https://became.nl/amroh/Geschiedenis%20AMROH/historie1.htm >>>> their '402 coil' (medium wave coil) was seen in many projects. >>>> Amroh goes back to 1932... >>>> >>>>As to 2 resistors that sounds bad... >>>>I remember asking to draw a transistor relais driver to see if they forgot the flyback protection diode... >>> >>>The really advanced question is to state the voltages in an emitter >>>follower. >>> >>>I recently hired a kid who flubed the voltage divider question. 10 >>>volt supply, 9K and 1K divider, what's the voltage across the 1K? He >>>mumbled and said 9. >> >> Oops! >> >> Maybe we should ask 'did you ever design something or build something yourself at home?' > >Why should he have? No-one does that any more. >If your time is taken up by other things such as your latest text message and if everything electronic that you need (such as >your >Mobile Phone, TV, Microwave Oven, Toaster etc) is readily available by magic then why would you want to learn how to design >anything >yourself? > >In any case no-one wants you to know anything about their latest designs because you might become a competitor and eat into >their >profits. Oh, I once signed a non-dislosure contract for a company I did work for, But I am an open-source guy. That goes for hardware I designed and software I designed https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html All puters run Linux here. Some asm stuff: https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/index.html https://panteltje.nl/index1.html >I wonder whether anyone patented the two-resistor voltage divider when it was first invented. > >Most companies don't care what you do or did at home. Real ones do I got the job at the national TV network here in the interview I pointed out I just designed and build a portable TV camera. Not many existed... 1968 that was Knew the answer to all the questions... >If they want electronic design they'll tell HR to find an individual with suitable qualifications. >If that process doesn't go well (perhaps because the interviewer couldn't tell whether a candidate was suitable or not) then a >lot >of time and money will be needed to fix whatever was designed. This is seen as normal in many places. I had one manager tell me > >"It's not a requirement for it to work" In an assertive non-joking tone. I didn't reply but my mind said "well in that case I >think >you should find someone else to do it". I have done many sorts of jobs all around the world. The requirement always is that you deliver. For a while I had my own TV repair shop in Amsterdam. People expect the stuff you repair to work. Went to US for some weeks, needed somebody to fix any quarantee cases for a few weeks, guy came in, I gave him a defective set, can you fix this? He did, hired him. In broadcasting I have seen higher educated people than me break down and actually quit. Guy I replaced left after he had a work stress related breakdown. My boss later ended up in the mad house, last we heard from him was a postcard from that place. Always thought it was my declarations that made him flip ;-) When I was hired we got six month payed in the schoolbenches learning everything from managment to cameras to TV to satellite to audio to security to fire all top level, you had to be able to repair stuff on the spot. Studios (we had 6 to look after) were extremely complex with millions of dollars stuff and the show must go on... And there was film too in those days. In depth knowledge, thousands of circuits, speed, human interaction (always stress, producers, artist waiting.. you cannot sell a black screen), much more to it, glowbal networking Dreaming on a table with a pen and a peace of paper was not an option. And shifts, early morning to late night... I have seen people drop out... When those moon landings happened I was sometimes in the head control room here relaying it.. Lots of tube equipment there back then. Done many other things, technical translator, writing docs from lab reports, programming, art, airport electronics, security, what not. Started with designing power electronics for the army and navy and telcos, dangerous work on those navy ships, Broadcasting was at least safe :-) >It's also true that home electronics is now so much more reliable than it was 60 years ago that no-one at home needs to care how > >anything works. >My father could repair a toaster no trouble. But these days when toasters die they go to the dump not the repair shop. The >repair >shop no-longer exists for that reason. Repair shops were often associated with the home of the owner and the same test equipment > >used for repair could be used for design. > >There are also many reasons why you can't sell anything you design at home because you don't have the money to make sure it >complies >with safety and other standards. >And you don't have money for the lawsuit when someone claims your product injured them. Well, add a disclamer ;-) Too many lawyers anyways.. Most I learned about software and microprocessors I learned designing things at home, Some good books... 'Micro processor interfacing techniques' in the seventies... https://www.amazon.com/Microprocessor-Interfacing-Techniques-Rodnay-Zaks/dp/0895880296 started with a Sinclair ZX80 There is now a right to repair movement going on, at least in the EU