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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: About WiFi7
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 16:27:36 -0700
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On 8/23/2024 4:09 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vab3qa$12s47$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 8/23/2024 12:54 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vaao50$112hi$2@dont-email.me...
>>>> On 8/23/2024 9:32 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>>> Someone else mentioned cars. I prefer to keep my car off wifi. No need for the car to use it.
>>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/14/texas_sues_general_motors/
>>>>
>>>> *I* mentioned cars.  And, I use WiFi only to connect the car to the automation
>>>> system in the house.  So, if the garage door is inhibited from opening to
>>>> allow the driver access, the driver can view a live image of the interior
>>>> of the garage to see WHY the door is not being allowed to open (someone
>>>> working in the garage, power failure, stuff in the path of the vehicle,
>>>> pets wandering around, etc.)
>>>
>>> I'd put a camera in the garage for that. PoE Wired.
>>
>> Have several tied into the opener.  Is anyone working on a ladder ABOVE
>> the door rails?  Is anything in the path of the car?  Is anything moving
>> around (animals, kids) inside the closed garage?  etc.   Use this information
>> BEFORE allowing the door opener to be actuated.
>>
>> But, how do you let the *driver* "see" the "situation" inside the closed
>> garage as he approaches the residence?
> 
> Telepathy? Why does it matter? If my garage door didn't open I'd park outside the garage and then investigate why.

So, you would be inconvenienced.  Fine.  Why have a garage at all?
Why not "settle" for parking on the street ALL THE TIME?

>>>> Would you, instead, like that to be conveyed to your ISP via your access point,
>>>> over-the-air to your cell phone -- which you will have to access in order to
>>>> "see" the scene?  All those third-parties on which you will rely?
>>>
>>> What does my ISP have to do with packets traveling between devices on my LAN??
>>
>> Do you have a long cord connecting your LAN to the car as it approaches from
>> down the street?
> 
> Why would anyone need to see inside their garage as they approach from down the street??

You don't -- unless the door doesn't want to open on your command.  Here,
if that happened because SWMBO was digging through the freezer chest and
the dogs were at her feet, I would TELL her to get the dogs in the house
so I could pull in.

Why would they need a garage door opener?  Why would that opener need safety
features?  If the nose of your car hangs above the photoelectric sensors,
will the door KNOW this?  Or, will it gladly close on your door, putting a
crease in your hood (when the over-current sensor on the motor detected the
"obstruction" -- BY TOUCH)?

>>> I don't and won't use cameras which bounce off the manufacturer's servers outside my LAN.
>>>
>>>> Why not use all those LCD screens already in place in the car (and, have that
>>>> happen automatically when you engage the garage door opener)?
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing you can do to keep your car from "tattling" to the dealership,
>>>> manufacturer, credit bureau, etc.  I've often wondered if it would throw a fit
>>>> if you, e.g., shorted it;s antenna!
>>>
>>> What specific antenna or data communication means are you referring to?
>>
>> Most modern cars talk to the dealerships/manufacturers.
> 
> Sure but is that by WiFi, bluetooth, or direct connection or does that depend on the car?

That's not under your control.  My WiFi use *is* under my control -- I own the
AP and the radio in the car.  No one else can connect to those things.

> If the location which does my oil change is uploading my driving habits to the car manufacturer then I would certainly like to know
> about that.

They don't have to.  The CAR does it.  They, as a service to you, will reset
the "maintenance minder" (that the car controls based on mileage, habits,
etc.).  The car *likely* would convey the event "Maintenance Minder Reset"
to the vendor.  So, the vendor knows that SOMEONE serviced your vehicle
(and they can easily determine that it wasn't the dealer -- because the
dealer has no record of servicing your vehicle).  Provide the GPS
coordinates (available to the car at all times!) along with the notification
of the "indicator has been reset" and it's not hard for someone to figure
out *who* serviced your car.

The car likely tattles about your usage in order to help the dealership
sell services to you -- and, this as a "convenience FOR you"!  (so YOU
don't have to remember when the car needs service)

Vendors obviously have access to usage data as they have been caught
selling it to third parties.

Lots of information "leaks" in data exchanges.  I was able to tell my
sister which days her (ex) husband had skipped work (to visit his
girlfriend!) just from a casual look through his cell phone records.
("Why is he in Town X as he is making this call instead of Town Y -- where
he WORKS?")

[I can tell -- to a high degree of certainty -- if someone in my house took
a bath, shower, or shit (and, whether or not he washed his hands!), based on
how long he was in the bathroom, the total volume of water consumed and its
rate of flow.]

>> Ever wonder how MY
>> dealership knows not to pester me for a 5000 mile service after the typical
>> 3-4 months that most folks would encounter -- instead, waiting for a full
>> year to tickle me with a USPS "coupon" for a discount on that service?
>> *Who* is telling him about my driving habits?  Who is telling LexisNexis about
>> your driving habits?
>>
>> I tell the guy who does my routine maintenance NOT to reset the service
>> indicator at his facility but, instead, to let ME do it "wherever I want"
>> (as the location data captured at that event would be valuable to the
>> dealership/manufacturer:  "Where is he getting his service as it has
>> NOT been from the dealer!??")