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From: "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: About WiFi7
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 20:39:20 -0400
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"Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vab5ts$12s47$3@dont-email.me...
> On 8/23/2024 4:09 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vab3qa$12s47$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 8/23/2024 12:54 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vaao50$112hi$2@dont-email.me...
>>>>> On 8/23/2024 9:32 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>>>> Someone else mentioned cars. I prefer to keep my car off wifi. No need for the car to use it.
>>>>>> https://www.theregister.com/2024/08/14/texas_sues_general_motors/
>>>>>
>>>>> *I* mentioned cars.  And, I use WiFi only to connect the car to the automation
>>>>> system in the house.  So, if the garage door is inhibited from opening to
>>>>> allow the driver access, the driver can view a live image of the interior
>>>>> of the garage to see WHY the door is not being allowed to open (someone
>>>>> working in the garage, power failure, stuff in the path of the vehicle,
>>>>> pets wandering around, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> I'd put a camera in the garage for that. PoE Wired.
>>>
>>> Have several tied into the opener.  Is anyone working on a ladder ABOVE
>>> the door rails?  Is anything in the path of the car?  Is anything moving
>>> around (animals, kids) inside the closed garage?  etc.   Use this information
>>> BEFORE allowing the door opener to be actuated.
>>>
>>> But, how do you let the *driver* "see" the "situation" inside the closed
>>> garage as he approaches the residence?
>>
>> Telepathy? Why does it matter? If my garage door didn't open I'd park outside the garage and then investigate why.
>
> So, you would be inconvenienced.  Fine.  Why have a garage at all?
> Why not "settle" for parking on the street ALL THE TIME?

Never mind.

>
>>>>> Would you, instead, like that to be conveyed to your ISP via your access point,
>>>>> over-the-air to your cell phone -- which you will have to access in order to
>>>>> "see" the scene?  All those third-parties on which you will rely?
>>>>
>>>> What does my ISP have to do with packets traveling between devices on my LAN??
>>>
>>> Do you have a long cord connecting your LAN to the car as it approaches from
>>> down the street?
>>
>> Why would anyone need to see inside their garage as they approach from down the street??
>
> You don't -- unless the door doesn't want to open on your command.  Here,
> if that happened because SWMBO was digging through the freezer chest and
> the dogs were at her feet, I would TELL her to get the dogs in the house
> so I could pull in.

How would you know in advance that the door wasn't going to open on your command?
How would you tell her? By phone? Isn't that inconvenient?
I would put the freezer in the house and make sure the garage door is not obstructed by dogs or anything else.
Problem solved.

>
> Why would they need a garage door opener?  Why would that opener need safety
> features?  If the nose of your car hangs above the photoelectric sensors,
> will the door KNOW this?  Or, will it gladly close on your door, putting a
> crease in your hood (when the over-current sensor on the motor detected the
> "obstruction" -- BY TOUCH)?

Sorry but I'm beginning to wonder whether you live on the same planet as me.

>
>>>> I don't and won't use cameras which bounce off the manufacturer's servers outside my LAN.
>>>>
>>>>> Why not use all those LCD screens already in place in the car (and, have that
>>>>> happen automatically when you engage the garage door opener)?
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing you can do to keep your car from "tattling" to the dealership,
>>>>> manufacturer, credit bureau, etc.  I've often wondered if it would throw a fit
>>>>> if you, e.g., shorted it;s antenna!
>>>>
>>>> What specific antenna or data communication means are you referring to?
>>>
>>> Most modern cars talk to the dealerships/manufacturers.
>>
>> Sure but is that by WiFi, bluetooth, or direct connection or does that depend on the car?
>
> That's not under your control.  My WiFi use *is* under my control -- I own the
> AP and the radio in the car.  No one else can connect to those things.
>
>> If the location which does my oil change is uploading my driving habits to the car manufacturer then I would certainly like to 
>> know
>> about that.
>
> They don't have to.  The CAR does it.

By what means? Please describe the specific communication channel the car is using when it uploads my driving habits to the 
manufacturer.

> They, as a service to you, will reset
> the "maintenance minder" (that the car controls based on mileage, habits,
> etc.).  The car *likely* would convey the event "Maintenance Minder Reset"
> to the vendor.

By what communication channel?

>  So, the vendor knows that SOMEONE serviced your vehicle
> (and they can easily determine that it wasn't the dealer -- because the
> dealer has no record of servicing your vehicle).  Provide the GPS
> coordinates (available to the car at all times!)

Jamming GPS isn't hard but we needn't go into that.

> along with the notification
> of the "indicator has been reset" and it's not hard for someone to figure
> out *who* serviced your car.
>
> The car likely tattles about your usage in order to help the dealership
> sell services to you -- and, this as a "convenience FOR you"!  (so YOU
> don't have to remember when the car needs service)
>
> Vendors obviously have access to usage data as they have been caught
> selling it to third parties.
>
> Lots of information "leaks" in data exchanges.  I was able to tell my
> sister which days her (ex) husband had skipped work (to visit his
> girlfriend!) just from a casual look through his cell phone records.
> ("Why is he in Town X as he is making this call instead of Town Y -- where
> he WORKS?")
>
> [I can tell -- to a high degree of certainty -- if someone in my house took
> a bath, shower, or shit (and, whether or not he washed his hands!), based on
> how long he was in the bathroom, the total volume of water consumed and its
> rate of flow.]

You must be popular with visitors.

>
>>> Ever wonder how MY
>>> dealership knows not to pester me for a 5000 mile service after the typical
>>> 3-4 months that most folks would encounter -- instead, waiting for a full
>>> year to tickle me with a USPS "coupon" for a discount on that service?
>>> *Who* is telling him about my driving habits?  Who is telling LexisNexis about
>>> your driving habits?
>>>
>>> I tell the guy who does my routine maintenance NOT to reset the service
>>> indicator at his facility but, instead, to let ME do it "wherever I want"
>>> (as the location data captured at that event would be valuable to the
>>> dealership/manufacturer:  "Where is he getting his service as it has
>>> NOT been from the dealer!??")
>
>