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From: "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: About WiFi7
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2024 15:43:36 -0400
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"KevinJ93" <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> wrote in message news:vadbpe$1glti$1@dont-email.me...
> On 8/24/24 9:02 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>> "Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vac74n$1b4rk$1@dont-email.me...
>>> On 8/23/2024 7:21 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> How would you tell her? By phone? Isn't that inconvenient?
>>>>>
>>>>> *YOU* can't!  *I* can!  I have a button on the dash that connects me to
>>>>> the house via a "long range (1/2 mile) cordless phone".  So, I can talk
>>>>> TO THE HOUSE (not to her) and tell *it* that I am on the way home -- adjust
>>>>> the HVAC, lighting and entertainment, accordingly.  If I've been out
>>>>> shopping, maybe tell SWMBO (for me) that I am on my way and would appreciate
>>>>> some help unloading the car.  Open the garage door BEFORE I get to the house
>>>>> and have to wait for it to completely open.
>>>>>
>>>>> If THE HOUSE realizes that it can't safely open the door, the HOUSE tells
>>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> You have very clever houses in your area.
>>>> I prefer to adjust the lighting when I'm at home, not from half a mile away.
>>>
>>> Some day, you too, may be able to afford such a place!  Maybe before you have
>>> to trade your home's equity (plus a bit?) to gain admission to a retirement
>>> home (and your life savings to pay your rent, while there).
>>>
>>> I prefer for technology to address all these mundane things -- for the same
>>> reason I have an alarm clock instead of relying on a rooster to wake me
>>> (roosters are only applicable if you want to be awakened at sunrise; alarm
>>> clocks are more customizable!)
>>>
>>>>>>>> If the location which does my oil change is uploading my driving habits to the car manufacturer then I would certainly like
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> about that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't have to.  The CAR does it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By what means? Please describe the specific communication channel the car is using when it uploads my driving habits to the
>>>>>> manufacturer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ask your car *manufacturer* what bands they use.
>>>>
>>>> Is this the secret car communication network I'm not aware of?
>>>> I think maybe I'll just park my car in a Faraday cage.
>>>
>>> You must have an old (or cheap) car.
>>
>>> Most modern cars "talk" to their makers.
>>
>> So you keep saying but you never specify how.
>> GPS is down only (no return path) so my car is not using GPS to talk to anyone but it could obviously send its location by other
>> means.
>> WiFi almost always needs a password or a captive portal agreement
>> but when the car is in for service it would be possible for the service location to connect it to WiFi.
>> Bluetooth is short range so it isn't talking to the makers.
>> That leaves cell tower communication.
>>
>> If my car is using cell tower access to talk to its maker without me knowing then I want to know about that.
>> Some cars do use cell tower communication, for example leased vehicles where the leasing company wants to track the car,
>> but that would be in the leasing contract and only works where there are cell towers.
>>
>> Which if the above methods is the car using to talk to its maker?
>> And when is it using that method? On the move or in service or at home or other?
>> Does the car store information about my use of the car for later transmission to its maker?
> <...>
>
> Many modern cars have cellular capability that is not exposed to the user and just used for telemetry etc.
>
> Often it is not used for software updates, that requires a wifi connection.
>
> I assume the car manufacturer has some form of limited data transfer agreement with the cellular carrier.
>
> There is usually no monthly charge to the car owner for the basic serivce, it is covered by the manufacturer. If there are 
> additional capability that also exploits the cellular link there may be a charge for that. For example on the Tesla there is a 
> $10/month charge if you want audio streaming, real-time traffic information or improved map capabilities.
>
> kw
>

Thank you for that information.

When I buy a car I want to know exactly what data it will be transmitting over the cellular network,
who it is transmitted to and what they are using the data for.
If it's not possible to decline then I will consider a different manufacturer or even an older car.