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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: V5 --- Professor Sipser --- Does Ben Bacarisse believe that
 Professor Sipser is wrong?
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2024 08:24:53 -0500
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On 8/23/2024 4:07 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> joes <noreply@example.org> writes:
> 
>> Am Wed, 21 Aug 2024 20:55:52 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> 
>>> Professor Sipser clearly agreed that an H that does a finite simulation
>>> of D is to predict the behavior of an unlimited simulation of D.
>>
>> If the simulator *itself* would not abort. The H called by D is,
>> by construction, the same and *does* abort.
> 
> We don't really know what context Sipser was given.  I got in touch at
> the time so do I know he had enough context to know that PO's ideas were
> "wacky" and that had agreed to what he considered a "minor remark".
> 
> Since PO considers his words finely crafted and key to his so-called
> work I think it's clear that Sipser did not take the "minor remark" he
> agreed to to mean what PO takes it to mean!  My own take if that he
> (Sipser) read it as a general remark about how to determine some cases,
> i.e. that D names an input that H can partially simulate to determine
> it's halting or otherwise.  We all know or could construct some such
> cases.
> 
> I suspect he was tricked because PO used H and D as the names without
> making it clear that D was constructed from H in the usual way (Sipser
> uses H and D in at least one of his proofs).  Of course, he is clued in
> enough know that, if D is indeed constructed from H like that, the
> "minor remark" becomes true by being a hypothetical: if the moon is made
> of cheese, the Martians can look forward to a fine fondue.  But,
> personally, I think the professor is more straight talking than that,
> and he simply took as a method that can work for some inputs. 

<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then

     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>

If professor Sipser agreed to this and it only works for
some inputs then his agreement would have been incorrect.
There was an 18 message exchange prior to this agreement.

I do not believe that Professor Sipser made a mistake
because it still seems to be a simple tautology to me.

> That's
> the only way is could be seen as a "minor remark" with being accused of
> being disingenuous.
> 
>>> Ben saw this right away and it seems that most everyone else simply lied
>>> about it.
>> I don’t think you understood him.
> 
> I don't think PO even reads what people write.  He certainly works hard
> to avoid addressing any points made to him.  I think it's true to say
> that pretty much every paraphrase he attempts "X thinks ..." (usually
> phrased as "so you are saying that black is white?") is garbage.
> Understanding what other people say is low in his priorities since they
> must be wrong anyway.
> 
> (I refuse to have anything more to do with PO directly after he was
> unconscionably rude, but I do keep an eye out for my name in case he
> continues to smear it.)
> 

That people still disagree that a correct emulation
of N instructions of DDD according to the semantics
of the x86 language defines what a correct simulation
is still seems flat out dishonest to me.

In the case of DDD correctly emulated by HHH this does
require HHH to emulate itself emulating DDD exactly one
time before HHH sees the repeating pattern.

void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
}

  machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
  address   address   data      code       language
  ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
[00002192][00103820][00000000] 55         push ebp
[00002193][00103820][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195][0010381c][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a][00103818][0000219f] e833f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)

New slave_stack at:1038c4
Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc
[00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
New slave_stack at:14e2ec
[00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer