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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Electric vehicle battery fires, what to know and how to react
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 06:10:52 GMT
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On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:19:44 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <8mjmcjh6kdfhicme7s85d35uop3muek7ng@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 11:42:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sun, 25 Aug 2024 09:54:36 +0100) it happened
>>liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
>><1qyubga.1kavnyx1f0m91cN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:
>>
>>>Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Electric vehicle battery fires - what to know and how to react
>>>> It's very rare, but lithium-ion batteries in electric vehicles can catch fire.
>>>> 
>>>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/08/electric-vehicle-battery-fires-what-t
>>>> o-know-and-how-to-react/
>>>> 
>>>> Good to know how to react when you electric car is on fire...
>>>
>>>So sales of fire extinguishers will plummet as there is no point in
>>>carrying one. 
>>
>>I do not even have one, but to get out of the upstairs bedroom here I have a rope ready...
>>Downstairs a 250 Ah lipo battery pack, those are supposed to not ignite
>>I have no 'lectric' car (yet?)
>>My bike will be OK...
>>Lots of Lipo batteries around the house, drone, radios, all sorts of stuff.
>
>ALL modern cell phones use LiPo pocket cells.  If your cell phone has
>a shoulder strap and is quite heavy, it might be Lithium-Ion. However,
>if your cell phone battery is small, flat, and cannot be removed, it's
>a LiPo pocket cell.  Same with a variety of battery powered
>rechargeable devices (Bluetooth speakers, recent rechargeable TV
>remote controls, drones, RC toys, walkie-talkies, COB-LED flashlights,
>etc).  
>
>"10 Dangerous Lipo Battery Mistakes - Fire and explosion causes"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrlLe6PRhyo>
>Good advice.
>
>>Storms here, maybe I should get a wind powered generator
>>may need a building permit ....
>
>Wind turbine generators usually have a means of "feathering" the
>turbine blades to prevent spinning to fast.  The last thing you want a
>turbine to do is free-wheel above its maximum RPM rating and launch a
>blade through your roof.
>
>>Solar panels I have, some flexible ones too for on a boat.
>>I have never had a phone on fire....
>
>No phone fires, but we had a dumpster fire at my former office that
>was started by a cell phone "battery bank".  This was an early model
>that used Li-Ion cylindrical cells (not LiPo).  There have also been
>three(?) eBike fires, which also use Li-Ion cylindrical cells with the
>added bonus of a home made battery packs and chargers.  I'm not
>including the local idiot who decided that only save way to dispose of
>a cordless tool battery pack was by first drilling holes in it.
>
>For your amusement, this is a clone Ryobi OP4060 cordless tool battery
>purchased on eBay(?):
><https://photos.app.goo.gl/S35ScvADzdoM22gFA>
>Notice that it use two different (mismatched) Li-Ion cell types, the
>thermistor is not glued to a cell, one of the FETs melted, and the
>"fuse" didn't blow.

Yes, much can go wrong, good thing it did not catch fire.



>I inherited three of these from a customer after
>he replaced them with OEM batteries.  There was no fire.  I could
>repair the packs, but instead, I'll probably scavenge the cells and
>use them something else such as flashlights.
>
>According to what I've read, the danger comes from the vapors produced
>by overheated electrolyte.  The most common type is a Lithium salt and
>an organic solvent mixture.  I would expect that some of this vapor
>might be detectable by a hydrocarbon gas detector such as a VoC
>(volatile organic compound) gas detector.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=voc+gas+detector&udm=2>
>I haven't done anything with this idea yet, but it's on my "yet
>another project" list.

Sensors is interesting, 
 https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors
I have some of those MQ gas sensors, some are sensitive to many different gasses
 https://www.tinytronics.nl/index.php?route=product/search&search=MQ%20sensor

The MQ4 I have on POE ethernet does detect combustable gasses:
 https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module

The MQ7 I have on an other POE ethernet module detects carbon monoxide:
 https://www.tinytronics.nl/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-7-gas-sensor-module

I also have a nice CO2 sensor from ebay:
 https://panteltje.nl/pub/MH-Z19_CO2_sensor_board_plus_optical_cavity_IMG_6083.JPG
 https://panteltje.nl/pub/MH-Z19_CO2_sensor_optical_chamber_IMG_6075.JPG

So much to play with, you may get false alarm on the MQ7 if you use any alcohol ..