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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: [SR and synchronization] Cognitive Dissonances and Mental Blockage
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 10:06:36 +0300
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On 2024-08-18 09:57:35 +0000, Thomas Heger said:

> Am Samstag000017, 17.08.2024 um 14:52 schrieb Python:
>> **An Interesting Case of Mental Blockage and Cognitive Dissonance:**
>> 
>> *Einstein-Poincaré Synchronization Procedure and Dr. Lengrand*
>> 
>> What’s fascinating about certain cranks is that just when you think 
>> you’ve seen all the absurdities they can come up with, they manage to 
>> produce something even worse. Their cognitive dissonance and ability to 
>> pull out bizarre notions from who knows where, on top of a perfectly 
>> well-defined technical procedure, is astonishing. We’ve seen this 
>> before with GPS, where Hachel invents all sorts of fantasies, like 
>> atomic clocks in the receivers or synchronization with a clock 
>> infinitely far away in a fourth spatial dimension...
>> 
>> This is a report of exchanges on the synchronization procedure 
>> described by Einstein in his 1905 paper, discussions that took place 17 
>> years ago and more recently on sci.physics.relativity and 
>> fr.sci.physique.
>> 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/fr.sci.physique/c/KgqI9gqTkR8/m/oMc9X0XjCWMJ
>> 
>> *Reminders on the Procedure:*
>> 
>> Two identical clocks, A and B, are stationary relative to each other at 
>> a certain distance. Their identical functioning (within measurement 
>> accuracy) allows us to assume that they "tick at the same rate." 
>> NOTHING more is assumed, especially regarding the time they display; 
>> the purpose is PRECISELY to adjust one of these clocks by applying a 
>> correction after a calculation involving the values indicated on these 
>> clocks during specific events, events that occur AT THE LOCATION OF 
>> EACH CLOCK.
>> 
>> Einstein’s procedure is not strictly a synchronization procedure but a 
>> method to VERIFY their synchronization. This is the main difference 
>> from Poincaré’s approach. However, it can be proven that Poincaré’s 
>> method leads to clocks synchronized in Einstein’s sense. You can also 
>> transform Einstein’s verification method into a synchronization 
>> procedure because it allows calculating the correction to apply to 
>> clock A.
>> 
>> *Steps of Einstein's Method:*
>> 
>> When clock A shows t_A, a light signal is emitted from A towards B.
>> 
>> When this signal is received at B, clock B shows t_B, and a light 
>> signal is sent from B back towards A.
>> 
>> When the signal is received at A, clock A shows t'_A.
> 
> Relativity requires mutally symmetric methods. So if you synchronize 
> clock B with clock A, this must come to the same result, as if you 
> would synchronize clock A with clock B.

No, it does not mutually symmetric methods. Such methods make the
presentation of the theory easier but do not affect the theory.
Einstein chose a symmetric method because otherwise his text would
be harder to read and understand.

> But this requirement was not fullfilled in Einstein's scheme, because 
> Einstein didn't take delay into consideration.

So you say but cannot prove.

> If A and B are located at different places in the universe and maintain 
> their distance (at least as long as the procedure lasts), then delay 
> (A->B) should be equal to delay(B->A).

There is no should be. Einstein simply defined that if those delays are
equal then the clocks are synchronous, otherwise they aren't.

-- 
Mikko