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From: Bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Top 10 most common hard skills listed on resumes...
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:51:42 +0100
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On 28/08/2024 12:21, Michael S wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Aug 2024 18:26:57 +0100
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 25/08/2024 17:20, tTh wrote:
>>> On 8/25/24 17:30, Bart wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So what language goes between Assembly and C?
>>>
>>>      Forth ?
>>>    
>>
>> I had in mind languages classed as 'HLLs'. I'm not sure if Forth
>> counts.
>>
> 
> They say that Forth is a HLL
> https://www.forth.com/forth/
> I tend to agree with them.


 From 'forth.com', and a commercial site at that? They're going to be 
completely impartial of course!

This is the Ackermann function in Forth, from 
https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Forth :

: acker ( m n -- u )
	over 0= IF  nip 1+ EXIT  THEN
	swap 1- swap ( m-1 n -- )
	dup  0= IF  1+  recurse EXIT  THEN
	1- over 1+ swap recurse recurse ;

Well, it's not assembly, but it doesn't have one characteristic of HLLs 
which is readability. The code for Ackermann can usually be trivially 
derived from its mathemetical definition; not so here.

So I say it fails the HLL test. But if it's not a HLL, it's also fails 
on low-level control: the above doesn't concern itself with types or 
bitwidths for example; you might consider that a HLL trait, but it's one 
that belongs the other side of C rather than below.

(Below are versions in more conventional syntax.)


> My personal bar for HLL is pretty low - any language in which one can
> write useful program (not necessarily big useful program or *very*
> useful program) in a way that does not depend on instruction set of
> underlying hardware is HLL.
> 

Then you'd need to include any intermediate languages or 
representations, since they are usually not tied to any specific target 
either.

Although any static typing scheme will likely be crude, for example with 
type info specified per-instruction rather than centrally as in a normal 
HLL.



-------

(Examples from my languages)

func ack(m,n)=
     case
     when m=0 then
         n+1
     when n=0 then
         ack(m-1,1)
     else
         ack(m-1,ack(m,n-1))
     esac
end

(Compact version)

fun ack(m,n) = (m=0|n+1|(n=0|ack(m-1,1)|ack(m-1,ack(m,n-1))))

(Example for Haskell; usually considered difficult, here it is clearer 
than the Forth where the algorithm or formula is indiscernible)

ack :: Int -> Int -> Int
ack 0 n = succ n
ack m 0 = ack (m-1) 1
ack m n = ack (m-1) (ack m (n-1))