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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Anyone that disagrees with this is not telling the truth --- V5
 --- Professor Sipser
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:23:06 +0200
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Op 28.aug.2024 om 17:18 schreef olcott:
> On 8/28/2024 10:14 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 16:53 schreef olcott:
>>> On 8/28/2024 9:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 14:46 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 8/28/2024 7:34 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 28.aug.2024 om 14:07 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> On 8/28/2024 4:00 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 27.aug.2024 om 15:32 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D *would 
>>>>>>>>> never*
>>>>>>>>>      *stop running unless aborted* then
>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HHH is only required to correctly predict whether or not DDD
>>>>>>>>> *would never stop running unless aborted*
>>>>>>>> And since DDD is calling an HHH that is programmed to detect the 
>>>>>>>> 'special condition', so that it aborts and halts, DDD halts as 
>>>>>>>> well and 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *THIS IS YOUR REASONING*
>>>>>>> If you are hungry and never eat you will remain hungry.
>>>>>>> You are hungry and eat becoming no longer hungry.
>>>>>>> *This proves that you never needed to eat*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, apparently, your understanding of logic English is very poor.
>>>>>
>>>>> HHH simulates DDD until it has inductive evidence that
>>>>> in the purely hypothetical case where a different HHH
>>>>> would never abort its emulation of DDD that DDD would
>>>>> never terminate normally.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently you still do not understand that HHH should process its 
>>>> input, not your dreams of a pure hypothetical non-input.
>>>>
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>> {
>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>    return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> In other words you are saying that HHH must report that
>>> infinite loops halt even though halting is reaching a
>>> final halt state and infinite loops cannot possibly reach
>>> a final halt state.
>>>
>>> Your replies have stepped over the line of an honest dialogue.
>>>
>>
>> No, you are dishonest by putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
>>
>> I said HHH should report that a *halting* program halt.
>> You make it that I said that HHH must report that *infinite loops* halt.
> 
> HHH must report on what the behavior of its input
> WOULD BE if it never aborted it emulation.

No, that is your error. HHH must report on the behaviour of its *input*, 
not of a *non-input*.
The input is a HHH that is coded to see a 'special condition' after 
which it would halt. (If not cheating with the Root variable.)
The HHH that is modified to never abort its simulation, is a non-input 
and is your dream, but dreams are no substitute for facts.

> 
> Neither DDD nor Infinite_Loop can possibly reach
> their own final halt state NO MATTER WHAT HHH DOES..

Infinite_loop has no end. DDD has an end as proved by the semantics of 
the x86 language, which we see in the direct execution and the correct 
simulation by HHH1.
Therefore, for Infinite_loop, not reaching the end is caused by 
Infinite_loop and for DDD it is the failure of the simulation that its 
own final end is not reached.
No matter what HHH does, it cannot reach its final end, which proved 
that the simulation is incorrect.
HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.

So, you are right with your repetitions below, proving as many times 
that the simulation by HHH is incorrect, because a correct simulation 
*would reach the final halt state*, as we see in the correct simulation 
by HHH1.

> 
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
> REACH FINAL HALT STATE
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