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From: David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.programmer,comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Python (was Re: I did not inhale)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2024 14:01:05 +0200
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On 29/08/2024 02:23, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:29:18 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> But ok, I found your post and removed all the #end comments.  I found it
>>> just as readable without them as with them.
>>
>> You know what? You are right. That example was just too
>> well-structured.

So why not try to write /all/ your code in a well-structured manner, so 
that you don't feel the need to add these "#end" comments?

>>
>> Here’s a more dangerous one:
>>
>>      def register_additional_standard(self, **kwargs) :
>>          "registers additional standard interfaces that are not automatically" \
>>          " installed at Connection creation time. Currently the only one is" \
>>          " the object-manager interface, registered with\n" \
>>          "\n" \
>>          "    «conn».register_additional_standard(managed_objects = True)\n"
> 
> That's not the conventional way to format a docstring.  If you're using
> backslashes to splice lines in Python, it's likely you're doing
> something wrong.

Agreed 100%.

> 
>>          for key in kwargs :
>>              if kwargs[key] :
>>                  if key == "managed_objects" :
>>                      if self._managed_objects != None :
> 
> I think "is not None" is more idiomatic.

I don't know if that is true or not that it is more idiomatic - I would 
certainly be happy with either.

     def register_additional_standard(self, managed_objects) :
         """
         registers additional standard interfaces that are not automatically
         installed at Connection creation time. Currently the only one is
         the object-manager interface, registered with

         «conn».register_additional_standard(managed_objects = True)
         """

         if managed_objects :
             if self._managed_objects != None :
                 raise asyncio.InvalidStateError("object manager 
interface already registered")
             self.register(
                 path = "/",
                 interface = ManagedObjectsHandler(),
                 fallback = True
             )
             self._managed_objects = {}
         return self

(Usenet formatting is limited to 72 characters standard - modern 
programming is not.  Overly long lines are not good, but a hard limit 
at, say, 80 characters is a bad idea.)


> 
>>                          raise asyncio.InvalidStateError \
>>                            (
>>                              "object manager interface already registered"
>>                            )
> 
> You don't need the \ if you put the ( on the same line.

Line continuation characters in Python are usually an indicator of poor 
formatting, or an unhealthy obsession with line length limits.

> 
>>                      #end if
>>                      self.register \
>>                        (
>>                          path = "/",
>>                          interface = ManagedObjectsHandler(),
>>                          fallback = True
>>                        )
> 
> Again, you've decided how you want to place parentheses and you're
> forcing the syntax to cater to that.  I might write that as:
> 
>                      self.register(
>                          path = "/",
>                          interface = ManagedObjectsHandler(),
>                          fallback = True
>                      )
> 
>>                      self._managed_objects = {}
>>                  else :
> 
> You leave a space between "else" and ":".  It's not wrong, but it's not
> something I've ever seen.  It's likely to be just a little jarring to
> readers.

I personally prefer a space before the colon in Python.  It is probably 
less common than no space, but it is certainly not a rare habit.

> 
>>                      raise TypeError("unrecognized argument keyword “%s”" % key)
> 
> Do you have a requirement to use older versions of Python that don't
> support f-strings?
> 
>>                  #end if
>>              #end if
>>          #end for
>>          return \
>>              self
> 
> Why not just "return self"?

Indeed.

> 
>>      #end register_additional_standard
>>
>> versus
>>
>>      def register_additional_standard(self, **kwargs) :
>>          "registers additional standard interfaces that are not automatically" \
>>          " installed at Connection creation time. Currently the only one is" \
>>          " the object-manager interface, registered with\n" \
>>          "\n" \
>>          "    «conn».register_additional_standard(managed_objects = True)\n"
>>          for key in kwargs :
>>              if kwargs[key] :
>>                  if key == "managed_objects" :
>>                      if self._managed_objects != None :
>>                          raise asyncio.InvalidStateError \
>>                            (
>>                              "object manager interface already registered"
>>                            )
>>                      self.register \
>>                        (
>>                          path = "/",
>>                          interface = ManagedObjectsHandler(),
>>                          fallback = True
>>                        )
>>                      self._managed_objects = {}
>>                  else :
>>                      raise TypeError("unrecognized argument keyword “%s”" % key)
>>          return self
> 
> Again, the #end comments don't make it any more readable *for me*.
> I suspect that would be even more true for more experienced Python
> programmers.

I don't know if I am more experienced than you in Python (I may have 
been using Python for longer, but you may have worked with it more), but 
I would say that the "#end" comments directly detract from readability.

> 
>> I was looking for quite a tricky example I remember seeing on the
>> ArjanCodes channel on YouTube, but I can’t find it.
> 
> In any language, if a block of code is so deeply indented that it's
> confusing, you should consider refactoring it.  (Though that's not
> always the answer.)

Agreed.

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