Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: The trip to France, Germany and Switzerland
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 10:27:13 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 181
Message-ID: <vb1tk2$1fpao$2@dont-email.me>
References: <vasgkp$g000$2@dont-email.me> <vasi1i$gq5j$1@dont-email.me>
 <vb012h$156br$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2024 16:27:14 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c771f4f793ae9bcc504d38d4b1876df8";
	logging-data="1566040"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Epvz3RiyhS+0VPTnDm46zzFl7/HxW2SE="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+ShjIIBMQt6zciVbdzftJebo5ck=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vb012h$156br$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 9329

On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>> On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
>>
>>
>> That happens.  On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both caught 
>> some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was unpleasant.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. Given 
>>> it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the train/Metro 
>>> and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as we arrived 
>>> several days before the Viking tour started.
>>
>>
>> Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before 
>> considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower 
>> physical shape.
>>
>>
>>> Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other spots, 
>>> and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not in the 
>>> best physical shape and that limited our options. We traveled by 
>>> Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by the Notre Dame 
>>> crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
>>
>>
>> I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan taking a 
>> lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
>>
>>
>>> The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor 
>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another 
>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed and 
>>> the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
>>>
>>> Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery we 
>>> arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, visited 
>>> some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A WWII buff, I 
>>> was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the part of Moselle 
>>> valley we saw.
>>
>> I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel crossings, 
>> somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall correctly.  I 
>> understand that the river looks somewhat different today, as the dam 
>> system for ship navigation has changed over the decades (less current; 
>> possibly slightly higher average water levels too).
>>
>>
>>
>>> Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as 
>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises they 
>>> are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a "technical 
>>> issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the food and crew 
>>> service was very good, but not great. We also had a few tour guides 
>>> that did not speak great English. My wife had to assist one with 
>>> translating the excellent French of a local vineyard owner.
>>
>> I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but 
>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways.  One trade-off 
>> for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY laundry onboard 
>> (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines & wine stewards at 
>> dinner.
>>
>>
>>> On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an unplanned 
>>> stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues for the schedule.
>>>
>>> Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very 
>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city 
>>> center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown in, 
>>> and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
>>
>>
>> There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back to in 
>> Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for Rösti.
>>
>>
>>> Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of the 
>>> lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our dinner 
>>> the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was announced that 
>>> there had been an accident ahead involving a tram and car. Line 4 was 
>>> being delayed and diverted. Almost all the passengers left the tram. 
>>> Two young locals offered to show us how to get to our destination. We 
>>> followed their instructions and arrived via a different route with 
>>> minimal delay. Could have figured that out ourselves but their 
>>> assistance was very helpful.
>>
>>
>> Things like that happen.  Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed such 
>> as heading to the airport for a departure flight.  Have had that 
>> happen with a train issue in Belgium.
>>
>>
>>> Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience the 
>>> 787 for the first time too.
>>
>> IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 version.
>>
>>
>>> Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via 
>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we have 
>>> not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an issue 
>>> for them.
>>
>>
>> Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well: several 
>> different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, Bordeaux, 
>> Chateaus, etc).
>>
>> Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of Bourges, 
>> as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to Notre Dame 
>> (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its old timbered 
>> houses section is nice: tastefully lit.  A single overnight is 
>> adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due south of Paris.
>>
>> And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk of 
>> age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, 
>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
>>
>>
>> -hh
>>
> 
> We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small snack 
> bar on the ground floor.
> 
> I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. But 
> their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My take is that 
> Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a port as seemed to 
> happen frequently they have issues with smaller places some of the AMA 
> excursions we liked. Example - the small music museum at Rudesheim. I 
> also remember that the guides were better and we had more free time in 
> port.

FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the ships 
on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock.


> I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my mind 
> a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8

[rearraging]

 > We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in Paris
 > plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
 > Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.

Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are 
utterly unaware of.  There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons someplace 
that I can't recall at the moment.  I think I could easily do 5-6 trips, 
not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.


> Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could be a 
> lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?

We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/Strasbourg 
(near the Rhine) in 2022:  it was straightforward, pretty easy, and 
quite fast city to city:  Strasbourg's just 1:45.  I've also used the 
Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its just ~90 minutes or so 
as well.

For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy 4-5 
block walk pulling our bags.  Once there, there was one day where it 
would have been good to have had a car, but it was also good to not have 
to worry about parking a car the rest of the time.  The 'car day' was a 
trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of Eguisheim, which is known 
for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (a 13C chapel) and several 
Alsatian wine producers, as the shuttlebus the city offered was over 
capacity & ran too infrequently.  But it is just as well though, as many 
of the Eguisheim visitors were loading up their cars with cases of wines 
to drive home; carting away a lot isn't really an option when flying.


-hh
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========