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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Higher Education Is Overrated
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2024 13:22:39 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 9/1/2024 12:53 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2024 11:54:00 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 9/1/2024 11:25 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sun, 1 Sep 2024 10:10:51 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/31/2024 11:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 20:34:08 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> YouTube is crammed full of longbow related videos:
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=english+longbow>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's a short video of what it takes to shoot a 155 lb longbow:
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1X8WxFbKOJI>
>>>>>
>>>>> More videos (by the same author) on shooting a 155 lb warbow (long
>>>>> bow):
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/@dashrendar5320/search?query=warbow>
>>>>>
>>>>> "175 lb warbow vs shield"
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svi_FNNtnVA>  (0:43)
>>>>> 14 gauge (0.072 in) steel shield.  He also shoots a 165 lb and a 45 lb
>>>>> recurve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spoiler:  175 lb penetrated the shield.  165 lbs was marginal.  45 lb
>>>>> bounced off the shield.
>>>
>>>> Good choice against French mounted armor.
>>>
>>> The long bow probably wasn't used against the armored French nights.
>>> The long bow was probably used against their unarmored horses.
>>>
>>> This discussion got me interested in the Battle of Agincourt, which
>>> allegedly was won by the English longbow archers.  I found a video on
>>> the topic which suggests that wasn't quite true.  The battle was won
>>> by the English archers, but not so much by their use of the longbow.
>>> The field of battle had turned to mud after several days of rain.  The
>>> French knights got bogged down and stuck in the mud.  After targeting
>>> the unarmored horses, the English archers saw the opportunity,
>>> discarded their longbows and massacred the French knights using hand
>>> weapons.  As one might suspect, they were quite effective using hand
>>> weapons because of the arm muscle strength required to be an archer.
>>> There are also some interesting comments as to the knights profiting
>>> from battles by ransoming their opponents while the lowly archers had
>>> no such incentive to take prisoners.
>>>
>>> "How The Longbow Defeated The French At Agincourt"
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHdzoPUIJhc>  44:51
>>>
>>> The story is somewhat substantiated by this article:
>>> "9 Things You May Not Know About the Battle of Agincourt"
>>> <https://www.history.com/news/9-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-battle-of-agincourt>
>>> See item #5.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, the video also shows some of the paperwork involved in
>>> managing a for profit battle.
> 
>> Doesn't every schoolboy know about the muddy field of Agincourt?
> 
> Yes, I knew the story about the muddy fields, but I don't recall
> reading anything about how the mud affected the actions of both sides
> or about the monetary motivations of those involved.  I was certainly
> not presented with anything even close to the story offered in the
> video.  Prior to reading, I just assumed that the longbow was some
> kind of super-weapon that was directly responsible for defeating the
> French.  In other words, I didn't get the details or the complete
> picture.
> 
> 
Makes sense; me too.

The English firing arrows into slow/stuck cavalry is about 
as much as I knew until your helpful details.
-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971