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From: Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gaming Prophecy?
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2024 21:38:49 -0400
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On 8/30/24 9:48 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <vat82j$k24v$1@dont-email.me>,
> Tony Nance  <tnusenet17@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 8/27/24 6:11 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>>> We touched briefly on Cugel today, and this sequence was on my mind:
>>>
>>>
>>> 	<snip transcription of Cugel doing Cugel things> >
>>>
>>> I know that Offut & Lyon's "War Of The Wizards" trilogy has a good
>>> example (not to mention they are really fun books!) and I understand
>>> there was a run on "Thor" where Odin tried a strategy of making all
>>> the Ragnarok prophecies come literally true in a survivable way.
>>>
>>> What are some other good examples of characters trying (succesfully or no)
>>> to game prophecy?
>>
>> When I read this post three nights ago:
>> a) I knew I would be very busy for a few days[1]
>> and
>> b) I knew there were plenty of examples that would come to mind
>>
>> While a) was sadly correct, b) was sadly incorrect.
>>
>> However, after staring at my bookshelves and also getting some help from
>> the internet, I have come up with a few (two successful, two not):
>>
>> [SPOILER ALERT - titles are ROT13'd and concatenated]
>>
>> Two successful ones:
>> 1a) In evbeqna'fcreplwnpxfbafntn, the protagonist is told "And you shall
>> fail to save what matters most, in the end." It turns out that he does
>> indeed fail to save his own mother, but that's because he gives her the
>> ability to save herself.
>>
> 
> Have not read these, though I saw most of the movie, which seemed
> mediocre.

The books are pretty good, especially if you keep in mind they're 
largely aimed at middle schoolers. My kids were the right ages, and this 
was the very last series I got to read out loud to them, before that 
notion became quaint and antiquated. One of my kids saw the first movie 
said it was terrible and they would see no more, no matter how many they 
made.



> 
>> 1b) In another part of the same series, a character receives a prophecy
>>from an oracle telling her she will "fail without friends, and fly home 
>> alone”. Sure enough, she fails because it is the protagonist who
>> captures the MacGuffin. However, the protagonist immediately gives her
>> the MacGuffin, and then buys her a plane ticket so she can fly back to
>> their camp alone (because if protagonist and sidekick fly back with her,
>> they’ll lose their earthly protection and probably be killed).
> 
> (Spoilers)
> 
> This kind of reminds me of the Harry Dresden propechy that as I recall
> is dual forked 1) You will die doing the right thing & 2) You will die
> alone.
> 
> His (dead) dad later tells him that everybody dies alone: It's a
> doorway sized for one (or words to that effect), and as for the
> first I believe it turned out to be true, but it was somewhat akin
> to being turned into a newt.
> 

I think you're right. I miss this universe.


>>
>> Two unsuccessful ones:
>> 2a) In guruneelcbggrefrevrf, the Big Bad Guy tries to kill his
>> prophesied nemesis, not realizing that the nemesis didn't actually
>> didn't become his nemesis until the moment Big Bad tried to kill him.
>>
> 
> Interestingly iirc that one, the prophecy could also have applied to
> Arivyyr

Most definitely. As I mentioned to Mike, it's not clear to me what would 
have happened if Big Bad didn't try to kill either of the two - but I 
could surely be forgetting some things.

Tony


> 
>> 2b) In qvnanjlaarjbarf’ pnfgyrvagurnve sybjrevaguravtug'f father locked
>> her up since her birth, after hearing a prophecy that the first man she
>> sees will become her husband. If he hadn't done that, she would have
>> never met the main protagonist  ...
>>
> Haven't read that one either, but the description puts me in the mind of
> Oedipus.