Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it>
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english, sci.lang
Subject: Re: Somewheres
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 08:59:02 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <vb6c3n$38k62$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vatljd$mjf9$1@dont-email.me>
 <pan$446ac$ba5dac04$67ebf9e0$47ac5644@gmail.com>
 <vb0a62$170hl$1@dont-email.me>
 <pan$6cdcd$a1e57e8a$8ebe27ea$32af951f@gmail.com>
 <f5140de8d161885842798961deb38a46@www.novabbs.com>
 <m31q2260rz.fsf@leonis4.robolove.meer.net> <vb4ejj$2rvka$1@dont-email.me>
 <slrnvdc5jt.ddb.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2024 08:59:04 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="18c4eb7ac207fc1318819285dc09d60b";
	logging-data="3428546"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/V/YsVbobvhfOfapxzaI8ZYAY6ZHY3NdQ="
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/38.0.1
Cancel-Lock: sha1:1BJvmV6ti4rX8xqbfX/8BxE+pdw=
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
In-Reply-To: <slrnvdc5jt.ddb.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 240902-8, 2.9.2024), Outbound message
Bytes: 3299

Christian Weisgerber hat am 02.09.2024 um 21:48 geschrieben:
> On 2024-09-02, Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote:
> 
>> Some southern Italian dialects have dropped a few final vowels, but
>> this does not extend to northern dialects or the mainstream version of
>> the language.
> 
> Okay, this opportunity is as good as any to mention something I've
> been burning to post ever since I re-read it in Akire/Rosen:
> 
> Have you ever wondered why the third person plural present tense
> forms of Italian verbs are so strangely stressed, e.g., pàrlano
> instead of *parlàno?  And where is that -o from anyway?  Spanish
> doesn't have it and if you look at Latin (-ant), there's no source
> for it.
> 
> Oh, you haven't wondered? ;-)
> 
> Apparently Old Italian had the expected ending -an, so what happened?
> The blame goes to the 'to be' word.  The Latin first singular "sum"
> and third plural "sunt" both ended up regularly as "son" in Old
> Italian.  But that was the only first person form that didn't have
> -o, so eventually it picked one up, producing "sono".  Now, since
> the first singular and third plural had already merged, "sono" also
> became the third pural.  And from there the -o spread to the third
> plural of all other verbs, but as a latecomer it didn't move the
> stress.

Please note, however, that the first singular and third plural present
forms merged only in "sono".


> It's an intriguing explanation, especially since it includes two
> developments that ran in opposite directions: First the addition
> of -o from many forms to one, then the spread of -o from one form
> to many.  I would guess the strong overall tendency toward open
> syllables in Italian had something to do with it.

I would guess the strong overall tendency toward open syllables in
Italian was the main reason for this development.