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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Computer architects leaving Intel... Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 17:11:47 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 73 Message-ID: <vbalv9$g96$1@dont-email.me> References: <2024Aug30.161204@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <memo.20240830164247.19028y@jgd.cix.co.uk> <vasruo$id3b$1@dont-email.me> <2024Aug30.195831@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vat5ap$jthk$2@dont-email.me> <vaunhb$vckc$1@dont-email.me> <vautmu$vr5r$1@dont-email.me> <2024Aug31.170347@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <vavpnh$13tj0$2@dont-email.me> <vb00c2$150ia$1@dont-email.me> <505954890d8461c1f4082b1beecd453c@www.novabbs.org> <vb0kh2$12ukk$1@dont-email.me> <vb3smg$1ta6s$1@dont-email.me> <vb4q5o$12ukk$3@dont-email.me> <vb6a16$38aj5$1@dont-email.me> <jwv8qw8o7zg.fsf-monnier+comp.arch@gnu.org> <vb85a3$3gq7e$2@dont-email.me> <vbaf4s$3vcq1$1@dont-email.me> <e869564c7aec3d40d2ac8b5aa003cef4@www.novabbs.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2024 00:11:53 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1f25f004199ea0f4099eed49c6b1bb6d"; logging-data="16678"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18iR8dYMKe18F49g6aCxY+PuFhn1QUNx/s=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:v/OIto4nqbqppDUyCxHOiXpIHCY= In-Reply-To: <e869564c7aec3d40d2ac8b5aa003cef4@www.novabbs.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3784 On 9/4/2024 3:18 PM, MitchAlsup1 wrote: > On Wed, 4 Sep 2024 20:15:24 +0000, Brett wrote: > >> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote: >>> On 03/09/2024 21:28, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>>> My impression - based on hearsay for Rust as I have no experience - is >>>>> that >>>>> the key point of Rust is memory "safety". I use scare-quotes here, >>>>> since it >>>>> is simply about correct use of dynamic memory and buffers. >>>>> >>>>> It is entirely possible to have correct use of memory in C, >>>> >>>> If you look at the evolution of programming languages, "higher-level" >>>> doesn't mean "you can do more stuff". On the contrary, making >>>> a language "higher-level" means deciding what it is we want to make >>>> harder or even impossible. >>>> >>> >>> Agreed. >>> >>> I've heard it said that the power of a programming language comes not >>> from what you can do with the language, but from what you cannot do. >> >> Wrong, the last version of Swift added all the garbage programming >> concepts >> that one should avoid. >> >> You have to give people the tools to do anything. > > It is impossible to create a computer programming language where > the programmer cannot shoot himself in the foot. A language could alternatively try to go in a direction like HolyC: Take C: Remove most advanced features; Add some weird syntax tweaks; Make all the types explicit sized. Some of it is almost half tempting, except that I would probably make the type-names lower-case to match with my existing usage (and save needing to hit SHIFT as often). Say: u0: void u1: _Bool u8: unsigned char u16: unsigned short ... i16/s16: signed short i32/s32: signed int i64/s64: signed long long f32: float f64: double m32: opaque 32-bit type m64: opaque 64-bit type m128: opaque 128-bit type .... Then, say: u0 foo(args...) { ... } Where, args is exposed as an array of u32 or u64 depending on the target architecture. ....