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From: -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: The trip to France, Germany and Switzerland
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 13:07:39 -0400
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On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote:
>> On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote:
>>>> On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That happens.  On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both caught 
>>>> some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was unpleasant.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. 
>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the 
>>>>> train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us as 
>>>>> we arrived several days before the Viking tour started.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before 
>>>> considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower 
>>>> physical shape.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other 
>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are not 
>>>>> in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We 
>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by the 
>>>>> Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan taking 
>>>> a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor 
>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another 
>>>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed and 
>>>>> the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery we 
>>>>> arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, visited 
>>>>> some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A WWII buff, 
>>>>> I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the part of Moselle 
>>>>> valley we saw.
>>>>
>>>> I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel 
>>>> crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall 
>>>> correctly.  I understand that the river looks somewhat different 
>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the 
>>>> decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water levels 
>>>> too).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as 
>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises 
>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a 
>>>>> "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the 
>>>>> food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a 
>>>>> few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to 
>>>>> assist one with translating the excellent French of a local 
>>>>> vineyard owner.
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but 
>>>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways.  One trade- 
>>>> off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY laundry 
>>>> onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines & wine 
>>>> stewards at dinner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an 
>>>>> unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues 
>>>>> for the schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>> Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very 
>>>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that city 
>>>>> center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride thrown 
>>>>> in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back to 
>>>> in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for Rösti.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of 
>>>>> the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our 
>>>>> dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was announced 
>>>>> that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram and car. 
>>>>> Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the passengers 
>>>>> left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how to get to 
>>>>> our destination. We followed their instructions and arrived via a 
>>>>> different route with minimal delay. Could have figured that out 
>>>>> ourselves but their assistance was very helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Things like that happen.  Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed 
>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight.  Have had 
>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience 
>>>>> the 787 for the first time too.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 version.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via 
>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we 
>>>>> have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not an 
>>>>> issue for them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well: 
>>>> several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, 
>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc).
>>>>
>>>> Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of Bourges, 
>>>> as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to Notre Dame 
>>>> (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its old timbered 
>>>> houses section is nice: tastefully lit.  A single overnight is 
>>>> adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due south of Paris.
>>>>
>>>> And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk of 
>>>> age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, 
>>>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -hh
>>>>
>>>
>>> We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small 
>>> snack bar on the ground floor.
>>>
>>> I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. 
>>> But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My take 
>>> is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a port 
>>> as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller places 
>>> some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small music museum 
>>> at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were better and we had 
>>> more free time in port.
>>
>> FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the ships 
>> on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock.
>>
>>
>>> I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my 
>>> mind a bit about next year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8
>>
>> [rearraging]
>>
>>  > We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in Paris
>>  > plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out.
>>  > Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list.
>>
>> Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are 
>> utterly unaware of.  There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons 
>> someplace that I can't recall at the moment.  I think I could easily 
>> do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany.
>>
>>
>>> Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could be 
>>> a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts?
>>
>> We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to Colmar/Strasbourg 
>> (near the Rhine) in 2022:  it was straightforward, pretty easy, and 
>> quite fast city to city:  Strasbourg's just 1:45.  I've also used the 
>> Brussels to Paris "Thales" express too; IIRC, its just ~90 minutes or 
>> so as well.
>>
>> For Colmar, the train station's not super-central, so it was an easy 
>> 4-5 block walk pulling our bags.  Once there, there was one day where 
>> it would have been good to have had a car, but it was also good to not 
>> have to worry about parking a car the rest of the time.  The 'car day' 
>> was a trip out of Colmar to an outlying village of Eguisheim, which is 
>> known for the Church of Saint Peter and Saint Paul (a 13C chapel) and 
>> several Alsatian wine producers, as the shuttlebus the city offered 
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