Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2024 08:56:02 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <vbhm1i$1c7u5$11@dont-email.me>
References: <vb4plc$2tqeg$1@dont-email.me> <vb6o5t$3a95s$1@dont-email.me>
 <vb71a3$3b4ub$4@dont-email.me> <vbbmuc$8nbb$1@dont-email.me>
 <vbcbe4$bdtb$3@dont-email.me> <vbeoge$q2ph$1@dont-email.me>
 <vbeprp$punj$7@dont-email.me> <vbh2q8$19og2$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 15:56:02 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fc36cd944b9fa7fa30157002795d809b";
	logging-data="1449925"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Ty5x/GySMhz+cDMJT5YTE"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:PUZY/BPZxCSLUtD+eHcjExXicMU=
In-Reply-To: <vbh2q8$19og2$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 3954

On 9/7/2024 3:27 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-09-06 11:42:48 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 9/6/2024 6:19 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-09-05 13:24:20 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 9/5/2024 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-09-03 13:00:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/3/2024 5:25 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-09-02 16:38:03 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A halt decider is a Turing machine that computes
>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the
>>>>>>>> behavior that this finite string specifies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A halt decider needn't compute the full behaviour, only whether
>>>>>>> that behaviour is finite or infinite.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New slave_stack at:1038c4
>>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored 
>>>>>> at:1138cc
>>>>>> [00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; 
>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 
>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>> [0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call 
>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
>>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e2ec
>>>>>> [00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; 
>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; 
>>>>>> housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>> [0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call 
>>>>>> HHH(DDD)
>>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hence  HHH(DDD)==0 is correct
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice to see that you don't disagree with what said.
>>>>> Unvortunately I can't agree with what you say.
>>>>> HHH terminates,
>>>>
>>>>> os DDD obviously terminates, too. No valid
>>>>
>>>> DDD emulated by HHH never reaches it final halt state.
>>>
>>> If that iis true it means that HHH called by DDD does not return
>>> and therefore is not a ceicder.
>>>
>>
>> The directly executed HHH is a decider.
> 
> If the called HHH behaves differently from the direcly executed HHH
> then the DDD is not relevant to classic proofs of the impossibility
> of a halting decider.
> 
> If you can't show encoding rules that permit the encoidng of the
> behaviour of the directly executed DDD to HHH then HHH is not a
> halting decider.
> 

I SHOW THE ACTUAL EXECUTION TRACE AND EVERYONE DISAGREES WITH IT.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer