Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: (ReacTor) Defining Our Terms: What Do We Mean by "Hard SF"?
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2024 16:08:22 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <vbibs2$1gujf$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v8qtfr$j6v$1@reader1.panix.com> <va89b3$iqh3$1@dont-email.me>
 <va8glg$5b9$1@panix2.panix.com> <di9hcj9q12p05lu5qj3i557k9v4a5amc44@4ax.com>
 <vacuac$jor$1@panix2.panix.com> <vbi38u$1eud0$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2024 22:08:34 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="714fd3bd0532e58ca9fbfaec0babfc04";
	logging-data="1604207"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18QMlaVXq9T3vIJHkn/J7FR"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101
 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.18.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:667BtXSkgMPX9ANq7BEPKjcGcLI=
In-Reply-To: <vbi38u$1eud0$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 3103

Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> On 24/08/2024 10.30, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Paul S Person  <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 22 Aug 2024 23:12:48 -0000, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think memorizing integral tables is kind of a standard thing for
>>>> engineering calc classes.  The whole point of the class is to be 
>>>> able to
>>>> solve hairy integrals as quickly as possible and there's no time to =
>>> derive
>>>> anything that you can memorize.  If you try to derive everything you'll
>>>> never get through a fraction of the exams in time.
>>>
>>> Ah.
>>>
>>> Teaching to the test.
>>
>> No, not at all.  The purpose of the class is to teach a specific set of
>> skills, which is to say rapid integration and derivation, because those
>> skills will later be required in engineering classes and then in the real
>> world of engineering.
>>
>> That is, it's skills training and not education.
> 
> Well, in the real world, even before Matlab and such, if an engineer was 
> faced
> with an ugly integral, he'd[1] pull the CRC book off the shelf, rather than
> try to apply integration by parts or something.

We didn't do that. It was more or less a cult thing, avoiding those tables.

I must have changed my mind at some point, as not three feet from me is 
a copy of "Table of Integrals, Series, and Products" by Gradstheyn and 
Ryzhik.  Now that I recall, that was an impulse purchase after I spent 
an hour and a half solving an integral the hard way.


I believe this was referenced in a tale by Kornbluth, in which an 
executive thinks to himself "maybe I don't look up as many integrals as 
I used to" or words to that effect.  It is a story about what happens 
when other considerations trump engineering.  Perhaps it should be 
required reading at Boeing?

William Hyde