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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 17:56:51 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 73 Message-ID: <vbkdvj$1v8tm$1@dont-email.me> References: <vb4plc$2tqeg$1@dont-email.me> <vb6o5t$3a95s$1@dont-email.me> <vb71a3$3b4ub$4@dont-email.me> <vbbmuc$8nbb$1@dont-email.me> <vbcbe4$bdtb$3@dont-email.me> <vbeoge$q2ph$1@dont-email.me> <vbeprp$punj$7@dont-email.me> <vbh2q8$19og2$1@dont-email.me> <vbhm1i$1c7u5$11@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2024 16:56:51 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="dd9d2cc639f13179d78eef7a9cb98700"; logging-data="2073526"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+0G74rfFaanorq3P5l7Waf" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:b3A0+82J/AdMSc9p+OCwGfqPtX0= Bytes: 3880 On 2024-09-07 13:56:02 +0000, olcott said: > On 9/7/2024 3:27 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-09-06 11:42:48 +0000, olcott said: >> >>> On 9/6/2024 6:19 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-09-05 13:24:20 +0000, olcott said: >>>> >>>>> On 9/5/2024 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-09-03 13:00:50 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/3/2024 5:25 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2024-09-02 16:38:03 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A halt decider is a Turing machine that computes >>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the >>>>>>>>> behavior that this finite string specifies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A halt decider needn't compute the full behaviour, only whether >>>>>>>> that behaviour is finite or infinite. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>> { >>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>> return; >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> New slave_stack at:1038c4 >>>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc >>>>>>> [00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>> [0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e2ec >>>>>>> [00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>> [0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hence HHH(DDD)==0 is correct >>>>>> >>>>>> Nice to see that you don't disagree with what said. >>>>>> Unvortunately I can't agree with what you say. >>>>>> HHH terminates, >>>>> >>>>>> os DDD obviously terminates, too. No valid >>>>> >>>>> DDD emulated by HHH never reaches it final halt state. >>>> >>>> If that iis true it means that HHH called by DDD does not return >>>> and therefore is not a ceicder. >>>> >>> >>> The directly executed HHH is a decider. >> >> If the called HHH behaves differently from the direcly executed HHH >> then the DDD is not relevant to classic proofs of the impossibility >> of a halting decider. >> >> If you can't show encoding rules that permit the encoidng of the >> behaviour of the directly executed DDD to HHH then HHH is not a >> halting decider. >> > > I SHOW THE ACTUAL EXECUTION TRACE AND EVERYONE DISAGREES WITH IT. There are no encoding rules in the actual execution trace. -- Mikko