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Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2024 16:44:59 -0500 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 144 Message-ID: <vbl5sq$22i6i$2@dont-email.me> References: <vbga1p$10phu$6@dont-email.me> <5sindjpqbq0lks6kn3but34lsisqsf0ooo@4ax.com> <vbhq2m$1dkbr$1@dont-email.me> <vbhqdj$1dnp0$2@dont-email.me> <vbi2vi$1ev12$1@dont-email.me> <h9tpdj5rb1pkdq4mn4stg17jps7br03qkt@4ax.com> <vbj38n$1pico$1@dont-email.me> <qi4qdjlntjk9i0ogdr67ta8t3kh5onl82e@4ax.com> <vbj5t7$1pico$8@dont-email.me> <2ubqdjdof7vkbrcmijhnnm7gicoh1lajl3@4ax.com> <vbktb2$216mu$2@dont-email.me> <89urdjpe5p0t28t1g2adr815r0ak0mtm47@4ax.com> <ra4sdj9afnv17qvujsnfeeubbucfkjv51t@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2024 23:44:59 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="db64a07f1a59558b0d6c2842462e1ff0"; logging-data="2181330"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18bLQQzuxYni2Z7X+aDVyb6" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:hnwDg9A0XaWLcx1rAW12fv4+hpU= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <ra4sdj9afnv17qvujsnfeeubbucfkjv51t@4ax.com> Bytes: 9006 On 9/8/2024 4:08 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote: > On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 12:56:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> > wrote: > >> On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 15:18:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski >> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> On 9/8/2024 1:14 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 23:32:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski >>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> America is different. See >>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume >>>>> >>>>> Among other points the author makes, "...a significant portion of truck >>>>> owners never use their trucks for these capabilities. According to >>>>> Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one >>>>> time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners >>>>> go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck >>>>> owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its >>>>> ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less." >>>> >>>> Nope. The reason Americans buy such trucks is that "light duty" >>>> trucks are exempt from the "gas guzzler tax". >>>> >>>> "Energy Tax Act" >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Tax_Act#Gas_Guzzler_Tax> >>>> >>>> "Gas Guzzler Tax" >>>> <https://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/gas-guzzler-tax> >>>> "The Gas Guzzler Tax is assessed on new cars that do not meet required >>>> fuel economy levels. These taxes apply only to passenger cars. Trucks, >>>> minivans, and sport utility vehicles (SUV) are not covered because >>>> these vehicle types were not widely available in 1978 and were rarely >>>> used for non-commercial purposes." (hah-hah-hah) >>>> >>>> "Navigating the Gas Guzzler Tax" >>>> <https://www.supermoney.com/encyclopedia/gas-guzzler-tax> >>>> "The gas guzzler tax does not apply to trucks, SUVs, minivans, or >>>> other vehicle types that were not prevalent as passenger vehicles when >>>> the law was enacted in 1978. The exemption for “light-duty trucks” has >>>> been exploited by manufacturers, impacting the overall tax collection. >>>> This exemption has contributed to the continued popularity of these >>>> vehicle types among consumers." >>>> >>>> "Gas Guzzler Tax" >>>> <https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gasguzzlertax.asp> >>>> "Auto manufacturers were keen to take advantage of a loophole in the >>>> gas guzzler tax and its interpretation through regulatory agencies >>>> like the EPA that exempted "light-duty trucks" from the law. >>>> Consequently, the amount of gas guzzler tax collected by the U.S. in >>>> the fiscal year 2019 was under $43 million." >>> >>> The (absence of) the gas guzzler tax motivated the manufacturing >>> companies to make and promote the trucks. >> >> True. The manufacturers find a market and produce a machine that >> sells in that market. Promotion (mostly based on the image the buyer >> is trying to emulate) is automatic for every type of vehicle. You may >> have bought an EV because you believe that you're environmentally >> conscious and want everyone who sees you in your EV to know it. >> >>> The buyers don't say "I'm >>> buying a grossly huge pickup because it bypasses the gas guzzler tax." >> >> Correct. Nobody admits to hidden motivations. You ran into that when >> you repeatedly asked if owning a gun has a practical purpose in our >> society. You got silence for an answer. Nobody replied. I watched >> it develop and finally got sick of your repetitious questions. So, I >> provided a real answer. They want to have a gun in case something >> goes wrong while praying they have to use it. The gun buyer doesn't >> know when or how he may eventually be forced into using a gun. He >> just doesn't want to be the only person in the room that can't defend >> himself. If that's paranoia or irrational fear, that fine. This >> country was founding on our (irrational) fear of British domination. >> The problem is that's not an acceptable justification for owning a >> gun, so you don't hear that from many gun owners. >> >> Now, back to the monster trucks. There are few rational reasons for >> buying a monster truck. One reason is money. When they first started >> to appear, the dealers were having problems clearing their inventory. >> You could buy one of these trucks at a substantial discount on good >> terms. The prospective buyer was faced with a difficult choice. He >> could buy a more conventional and practical new car and pay the tax, >> or he could buy a discounted gas guzzler for about the same price. The >> monster truck seems like the best value (in the short run). Add to >> that the promotional advertising portraying the buyer as being very >> macho, hard working, etc exactly like the now dead lumberjack look. >> Perception is everything and for those who are perceived as lacking >> they will do almost anything, including buying impractical pickup >> trucks, to change how they are perceived. >> >>> They certainly don't buy them to save money, given their inflated costs. >> >> I'm not sure, but I think that price inflation started after Covid >> officially ended. Prior to that, you could price such pickup trucks >> by their price divided by their curb weight. I'll need to do the math >> before I'm claim that with certainty. >> >>> They buy them because they're in fashion, and that fashion makes the >>> dudes buying them feel a bit more masculine. Or makes the relatively few >>> ladies that buy them feel either more "cool," or safer - by imposing the >>> danger externalities on others, in a size and mass arms race. >> >> Yep. That's a fair summary of what I wrote. Saving a few thousand on >> the tax was an added bonus, but also one of the few tangible bonus's. >> If you want how it really works, read anything by Vance Packard: >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packard> >> Start here: >> <https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Persuaders-Vance-Packard/dp/097884310X> >> Ouch, that's expensive. >> >>> Note the survey results in the top paragraph. With rare exceptions, >>> people are not buying these trucks to do the special things that trucks >>> can do. >> >> Duly noted. Also note that most surveys do not even being to scratch >> the surface of the buyers real motivations and through processes. My >> favorite example was running a survey of whomever I could convince to >> answer my questions just after the Watergate mess became an >> embarrassment. Mixed into the questions was "Did you vote for Nixon >> in the Nov 1972 election". I asked about 60(?) people, mostly from >> the neighborhood where I was living. Everyone claimed that they voted >> in that election and nobody admitted to voting for Nixon. So much for >> the validity of opinion polls. >> >> If you also ask a random mob of monster truck buyers why they bought >> such an impractical vehicle, I suspect you won't get any honest >> answers. Same with asking the same random mob why they own a gun. > > If a pollster asked me who I voted for or why I did something and I'd > probably tell them to go f*** themselves. (censorship is because > someone on RBT has indicated they are offended by obscenities) > An excellent point. I often wonder nowadays who exactly responds to polls and surveys. No one I know wants to volunteer for the Lois Lerner list du jour. -- Andrew Muzi am@yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971