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From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2024 16:27:55 -0400
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On 9/9/2024 4:09 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 10:47:51 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:14:33 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 20:25:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 17:30:25 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1 ..and why does anyone care what kind of bikes other people buy?
>>>>
>>>> -1.  I like to see what other people buy and use so I can learn from
>>>> their experiences (and mistakes).  Some people can look at a catalog,
>>>> video or advertisement and instantly know that what they're looking at
>>>> is perfect for them.  I can't do that.  A test ride is probably best,
>>>> but watching what others do with the bicycle is a good 2nd best
>>>> evaluation method.  If I'm not currently in the market for a new
>>>> bicycle, then the education I get in watching what other people buy is
>>>> valuable.
>>>>
>>>> There are also people who won't buy anything unless they know someone
>>>> who already owns one.  I'm one of those people.  Buying version 1.0
>>>> has usually been a loser for me.  I bought my (used) Subaru mostly
>>>> because I knew 5 people locally who own one and who could give me
>>>> unbiased advice on its merits and potential problems.  I test drove 4
>>>> of the cars.  However, I can't test drive everything, so I rely on the
>>>> opinions of others.  It's like my motto "Learn by Destroying" except
>>>> it's someone else that destroys their latest purchase.
>>>>
>>>> You might not think it acceptable to take someone else's advice or
>>>> accept their opinions.  I do the opposite.  I ask for advice, solicit
>>>> people's opinion, and learn from them.  I read the buyer reviews on
>>>> web sites.  I watch YouTube videos demonstrating how the product is
>>>> used.  I read alarmist stories about how my latest purchase might be
>>>> short cut to my damnation.  This hasn't been 100% successful, but it's
>>>> good enough for my purposes and certainly better purchasing cars or
>>>> bicycles with only the dealer or vendors sales pitch.
>>>
>>> (1) You care about what other people buy, but I doubt that you berate
>>> them or try to talk them out of it.
>>
>> I try to avoid criticizing the buyer and prefer to criticize the
>> product.  I don't get involved in such discussions over bicycle
>> purchases.  I don't ride much any more and am not involved in any
>> cycling organizations.  The opportunity just doesn't exist for me.
>> However, I'm still heavily involved in computer purchases, both new
>> and used.  I will gladly offer my opinion on a prospect computer
>> purchase often in excruciating detail.  However, there's a catch.  It
>> takes me several hours online to find the best configuration, software
>> and price.  I also take some responsibility if the purchase goes awry.
>> For that, I charge for my time.  If I'm expected to assemble and
>> configure the computer on arrival, I also charge for that.
>>
>> As for berating someone, that's counterproductive.  I don't think it's
>> a good idea to irritate someone who might be a potential paying
>> customer.  If something goes wrong, I do my best to solve the problem
>> without assigning the blame.  My usual line is "Let's talk about
>> finger pointing after the computer is working".
>>
>> I don't know much of this applies to online opinions of bicycles and
>> their buyers.  I've only purchased one new bicycle (in 1985) so I'm
>> not really qualified to offer an opinion.  I do have some experience
>> with older machines and components.  I know enough about design,
>> engineering, material properties, metallurgy, chemistry, shop
>> practices, etc to consider myself qualified to offer an opinion.  Of
>> course, I'm an expert in any off topic discussion.
>>
>>> (2) I suspect that you solicit the advice (so do I) and you seek out
>>> opinions of people who you have detirmined to be qualified.
>>
>> True.  Back in the last century, I had a box of business cards of
>> people who I would call for help.  Today, the list is on my computer.
>> It's often who I know rather than what I know.  Unfortunately, as I
>> get older, many of my former expert contacts are no longer available
>> causing a big reduction in sources of expert advice.  I didn't realize
>> how useful they were until after they were gone.  That leaves me with
>> having to seek advice from various online forums.  There are plenty of
>> genuine experts out there, but getting them to answer my questions has
>> proven difficult.  After the introductory "how did you find me?"
>> discussion, they usually mention keeping a low profile because of all
>> the "noise" they have found in online forums.  Fortunately, I'm on
>> several private mailing list that include knowledgeable experts.  I
>> think I set the unwritten policy on one such mailing list.  If you ask
>> a question, be prepared to also answer someone else's question in
>> detail.  It's easy to spot the real experts by how they handle the
>> detail.
>>
>>> That's very different from what I intended with that question. My
>>> mistake. I should have been clearer.
>>
>> Try saving your message after writing it.  Wait about 30 to 60 minutes
>> and then look at it again.  That's what I (sometimes) do.  I can
>> usually see mistakes better after a delay.  Also, I think you'll find
>> that short one-line messages have far more ways they might be
>> interpreted than a longer message that explains your comment in
>> detail.
>>
>> Incidentally, I had to edit this twice before posting because I was
>> interrupted by multiple phone calls.  If you look at some of my
>> posting from yesterday, you'll probably find some strange choice of
>> wording.  That's what happens if I post something immediately after
>> writing it.
> 
> When I'm writing a post to Usenet, I'm always in a hurry to get back
> to something more important.

You don't have anything more important in your life than harassing Frank.


> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman

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