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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Defining a correct simulating halt decider Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 10:35:35 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 83 Message-ID: <vbrh87$3fttk$1@dont-email.me> References: <vb4plc$2tqeg$1@dont-email.me> <vb6o5t$3a95s$1@dont-email.me> <vb71a3$3b4ub$4@dont-email.me> <vbbmuc$8nbb$1@dont-email.me> <vbcbe4$bdtb$3@dont-email.me> <vbeoge$q2ph$1@dont-email.me> <vbeprp$punj$7@dont-email.me> <c600a691fab10473128eed2a1fad2a429ad4733f@i2pn2.org> <vbh2sp$19ov0$1@dont-email.me> <vbhm3c$1c7u5$12@dont-email.me> <vbkdph$1v80k$1@dont-email.me> <vbne7e$2g6vo$6@dont-email.me> <vbp1d7$2sg7q$1@dont-email.me> <vbqnqi$381t6$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 09:35:36 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1b12f7c7333227c0655464d8aa448511"; logging-data="3667892"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/3ruHeFcTemsQDGM2E+jKQ" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:6K/QU6Bn5fCEBpL27ABS9V9F0r8= Bytes: 4512 On 2024-09-11 00:21:36 +0000, olcott said: > On 9/10/2024 3:52 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-09-09 18:19:26 +0000, olcott said: >> >>> On 9/8/2024 9:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-09-07 13:57:00 +0000, olcott said: >>>> >>>>> On 9/7/2024 3:29 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-09-07 05:12:19 +0000, joes said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Am Fri, 06 Sep 2024 06:42:48 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>> On 9/6/2024 6:19 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2024-09-05 13:24:20 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>> On 9/5/2024 2:34 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-09-03 13:00:50 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/3/2024 5:25 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-09-02 16:38:03 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A halt decider is a Turing machine that computes the mapping from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> its finite string input to the behavior that this finite string >>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifies. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A halt decider needn't compute the full behaviour, only whether >>>>>>>>>>>>> that behaviour is finite or infinite. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:1038c4 Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hence HHH(DDD)==0 is correct >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nice to see that you don't disagree with what said. >>>>>>>>>>> Unvortunately I can't agree with what you say. >>>>>>>>>>> HHH terminates, >>>>>>>>>>> os DDD obviously terminates, too. No valid >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH never reaches it final halt state. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If that iis true it means that HHH called by DDD does not return and >>>>>>>>> therefore is not a ceicder. >>>>>>>> The directly executed HHH is a decider. >>>>>>> What does simulating it change about that? >>>>>> >>>>>> If the simulation is incorrect it may change anything. >>>>>> >>>>> PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR >>>>> PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR >>>>> PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR >>>>> PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR >>>>> PATHOLOGICAL RELATIONSHIPS CHANGE BEHAVIOR >>>> >>>> However, a correct simultation faithfully imitates the original >>>> behaviour. >>>> >>> >>> _DDD() >>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>> [00002183] c3 ret >>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>> >>> A correct emulation obeys the x86 machine code even >>> if this machine code catches the machine on fire. >>> >>> It is impossible for an emulation of DDD by HHH to >>> reach machine address 00002183 AND YOU KNOW IT!!! >> >> A correct emulation of DDD does reach the machine address 0000217f and >> a little later 00002183. > > *That is counter-factual and you cannot possibly show otherwise* A halt decider is required to predict about the actual execution, not a couterfactual assumption. -- Mikko